Ultradot and image issues

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Ultradot and image issues

Post by Tim:H11 on Sat May 20, 2017 2:05 pm

I have two 30mm UltraDot. I like to shoot both eyes open. With one it's not a problem. I see the target clearly. The other one unless I close my non-dominant eye I get a slightly blurred or split image. I am very confused as to why this is...any ideas guys?
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by LenV on Sat May 20, 2017 2:08 pm

The ultradot has a slight image reduction. Lots of discussion about that here. Older models don't have it.
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by Tim:H11 on Sat May 20, 2017 2:11 pm

LenV wrote:The ultradot has a slight image reduction. Lots of discussion about that here. Older models don't have it.

I did notice that but I have a split image in one and not the other. Both bought new same year.
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by LenV on Sat May 20, 2017 2:16 pm

One may be cranked way off to the side. Or up or down. Try centering the dot by counting.
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by Tim:H11 on Sat May 20, 2017 2:31 pm

LenV wrote:One may be cranked way off to the side. Or up or down. Try centering the dot by counting.

I'm not following you very well I'm sorry. The dot is zeroed. Shoots great. But the target, not the dot, is split into two images. A gohst image of what my left eye sees with out the scope, and the right eye sees the reduced sized target through the scope. I'm not sure why don't have this effect in both scopes instead of just one. I shoot both eyes open with both guns.
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by LenV on Sat May 20, 2017 2:48 pm

It sounds like a parallax problem. Believe it or not sighting a scope in that keeps the crosshair/dot centered moves the field of view and not the dot. If you have it cranked way to the side (to zero it) you can cause that ghost image. A good way to test that is to count how far the dot moves in either direction. That will also let you go back to your zero when done. Count the movement L/R U/D and then center dot. If your problem goes away you may have to adjust your mounts to reflect change.
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by Tim:H11 on Sat May 20, 2017 5:20 pm

I'm using the mounts that came with the Ultradot. Maybe I need better mounts. I thought they'd be adequate but I hear some don't like em. I'll check the mechanical zero this evenig. Thanks!
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by xmastershooter on Sun May 21, 2017 1:18 am

As an Optometrist, I am well aware of the cause of this double image.  Quality control was the issue which caused a displacement of the target image.  I've seen a number of Ultradot scopes which not only reduced the image through the scope but also displaces it off center.  This is most noticeable when the image is off vertically.  Your non-aiming eye will see the target in its proper position but the shooting-aiming eye will see an off-centered target.

If you aim your scope at something horizontal, note the horizontal line jumps off centered either up or down.  It's also possible that the image is displaced horizontally or at an oblique position.  I don't believe the cause of your visual problem was related to the other answers you received.  That's why you have no problems with the other scope.

Norman




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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by LenV on Sun May 21, 2017 1:31 am

Norman, were saying the same thing. I would bet you a nickel when he centers his dot thus re-setting the scopes horizontal and vertical alignment that his problem goes away. Changing the POA on a red dot scope changes its alignment internally.

Len  Not an optometrist. My specialty was starlight scopes and m44 aiming systems. A lifetime ago.
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by xmastershooter on Wed May 24, 2017 10:31 am

Hi LenV, thanks for your input.  Curious what Tim:H11 discovered after following your suggestion.  I'm not understanding about adjusting the mounts because there are no adjustments from the ones I've used.  Once all the bolts are tightened the scope can only be in one position.

Tim, the UD mounts works just fine.  The only comments about them are that the scope will have to be re-zeroed after removal, and from what I'd experienced, the aluminum threads strips rather easily.

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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by Tim:H11 on Wed May 24, 2017 10:49 am

Ok so it's not a dot zero or optical zero issue. Even with the dot off, looking through the tube, I still see a distorted target in a vertical direction. Basically a target and a half with the half target gohsting at the 11:30 or 12:00 position. I called Iltradot and they think it's a quality control issue with a lens. Told me to send it back for warranty repair. I gotta pay shipping both ways! I'm a bit disappointed. What sucks further is I'm shooting Friday, Saturday and Sunday and don't have a back up dot or time to arrange something like that. With a blinder it's ok. But I shoot two eyes open.
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by LenV on Wed May 24, 2017 11:19 am

It's me again. Turning off the dot does not change what is happening inside the scope. If you have to take it off and send it back anyhow then try centering the mechanism. They (ultradot) will do that as their first test. When I mentioned adjusting the rings I knew there was no adjustments on the rings. There may however be some way to raise or lower a ring using shims. I have had to do this many times in the past to Ruger rings. Just another .02 worth.

Len
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by Tim:H11 on Wed May 24, 2017 11:36 am

LenV wrote:It's me again. Turning off the dot does not change what is happening inside the scope. If you have to take it off and send it back anyhow then try centering the mechanism. They (ultradot) will do that as their first test. When I mentioned adjusting the rings I knew there was no adjustments on the rings. There may however be some way to raise or lower a ring using shims. I have had to do this many times in the past to Ruger rings. Just another .02 worth.

Len


I tried benching it with sand bags with the dot off so I could line the tube up straight with the target like a peep sight. I had equal shadows or wall of scope all around and centered the target. Still had a distorted image. Dot was off so there is no aiming point other than lining the tube straight with the target. Had a distorted image. I tried angling the scope up and down, side to side to see if it was clear in another area but no matter how I held this thing it seemed distorted with no change.
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by LenV on Wed May 24, 2017 11:52 am

Sorry I guess I was not clear. The turrets have to be centered. You do that by counting the clicks full up to full down and counting back to center. You also do that for left and right but your ghost seems to be up and down. There is a lens inside the scope that could be way off and miss-aligning the image. It could also have a defective lens like you mentioned before but then it would have been very hard to zero. Another .02. I have several scopes you could borrow but not sure if one could get to you in time to help.

Len
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by xmastershooter on Wed May 24, 2017 11:55 am

To expand upon this topic, some shooters who shoot with the red dot scopes while using both eyes opened may also see a vertical double target image even though the scope is perfect.  Often times, our two eyes are not aligned perfectly but we can compensate during our daily routine and do not see double.  We quantitatively measure this in prism diopters, the differential position of where the right eye aims as compared to the left eye.  When we confuse our brain by using one eye to look through the red dot scope, the other eye wonders off into its resting position, which is quite often out, in, up or down.

Thought this explanation may help some of our shooters who experience this problem.

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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by Tim:H11 on Wed May 24, 2017 12:50 pm

xmastershooter wrote:To expand upon this topic, some shooters who shoot with the red dot scopes while using both eyes opened may also see a vertical double target image even though the scope is perfect.  Often times, our two eyes are not aligned perfectly but we can compensate during our daily routine and do not see double.  We quantitatively measure this in prism diopters, the differential position of where the right eye aims as compared to the left eye.  When we confuse our brain by using one eye to look through the red dot scope, the other eye wonders off into its resting position, which is quite often out, in, up or down.

Thought this explanation may help some of our shooters who experience this problem.

Not sure this is the problem but it is interesting. My dot on my 22 gun doesn't have this issue. Just the 45.
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by Tim:H11 on Wed May 24, 2017 12:57 pm

LenV wrote:Sorry I guess I was not clear. The turrets have to be centered. You do that by counting the clicks full up to full down and counting back to center. You also do that for left and right but your ghost seems to be up and down. There is a lens inside the scope that could be way off and miss-aligning the image. It could also have a defective lens like you mentioned before but then it would have been very hard to zero. Another .02. I have several scopes you could borrow but not sure if one could get to you in time to help.

Len


I do appreciate the input and the effort to help. Especially loaning me a dot but I don't believe there would be time to receive it and zero it. Thank you very much. For the sake of this weekend I'm gonna shoot with tape over the left side of my glasses and do my best. After this weekend is over I'll send it back to Ultradot. 

Not trying to be stubborn but what does mechanically zeroing the dot do?
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by Magload on Wed May 24, 2017 3:22 pm

Ok if a lens is off try rotating the scope 90 degrees and see if the double image goes horizontal and not vertical like you are getting.  The double image should rotate as you turn the scope.  I don't believe it is your vision of your other scope would do the same.  Don
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Re: Ultradot and image issues

Post by LenV on Wed May 24, 2017 3:53 pm

I just grabbed a scope out of the safe and played with it. I cranked it all the way up and all the way down. I could not get that scope (3omm 4 dot) to give me a ghost image. It was not a total waste of time though. I found that my dot was visibly rounder when the scope was brought back to center. Whatever pistol I had it on last was zeroed at 64 clicks up only 9 above zero.

Len
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