Help me climb out

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Help me climb out

Post by hbeiro on 5/26/2017, 6:19 am

I'm in a rut.  Last night coming home from the range ... I shot 90.4% but the mid eighties for slow fire are killing me!  Anybody know where to buy silver bullets?

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Re: Help me climb out

Post by john bickar on 5/26/2017, 8:27 am

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Re: Help me climb out

Post by Chris Miceli on 5/26/2017, 8:32 am

Marine shooting work book ? Or that fancy one that distinguished shooting sports sell. It's one of the forum sponsors
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Re: Help me climb out

Post by KBarth on 5/26/2017, 8:38 am

Shoot each slow fire shot like the first shot in timed fire. I shot an 855-22 last night and my SF scores were 86, 92-1, 87
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Re: Help me climb out

Post by fc60 on 5/26/2017, 10:19 am

Greetings,

A long time ago, when I was shooting well, I did this to improve my slow fire scores.

I have a portable turning target system that has a 3 second face.

I would recite the sustained fire commands in my head, "ready on the right, the left, etc."

I then pressed the target cycle and I had three seconds to deliver a slow fire shot.

After a month of practice, I finally fired a 2605 and 2607.

The goal of the exercise is to prevent holding too long. Get the shot off quickly and precisely.

Cheers,

Dave

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Re: Help me climb out

Post by bdas on 5/31/2017, 10:57 am

Things that helped me move my slow fire scores from mid-80s to low-90s were shot-to-shot consistency (in grip, stance, breathing, trigger pull, shot process, etc.), and not taking/accepting as many bad shots (abort for even small issues or distractions, and especially for holding too long).  And, of course, dry firing.

Another thing to think about is... when do your worst slow fire shots happen? Do they tend to happen at the beginning, middle, or end of the string?  Do you scope each shot?  If yes, do you tend to follow a bad shot with another bad shot, or do you tend to follow a particularly good shot with a bad shot, or is it pretty random?  If no, it might be worth trying to scope them (at least when practicing), to help identify issues that may be leading to bad shots.

In slow fire, each shot is its own little world.  Target totals are just aftermath.  If that shot was a 7, it was a bad shot, regardless of whether the target total was 97 or 79. Take each shot like you want it to be a 10.

Dave

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Re: Help me climb out

Post by Tim:H11 on 5/31/2017, 11:48 am

Learn to abort a shot if you haven't already. Don't hold too long and don't force the shot to work. Holding too long and thinking "almost there" means it's time to abort. Trigger control needs to be consistent as well as grip. Grip and trigger finger must behave separately. During dry fire if you see the dot dart left or right then you need to adjust trigger finger placement.
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Re: Help me climb out

Post by Ed Hall on 5/31/2017, 3:27 pm

Things to address for slow fire:

- learn what the entire routine for a good shot** looks like
- look for all the indicators from above that let you know the shot is progressing correctly
- prior to the match and then each shot, review (visualize) the above
- be patient with the shot, but keep the trigger pressure increasing
- allow the sight picture to hover**** with no conscious corrections
- include consistent follow through
- review the shot mentally before looking in your spotting scope
- check call only when you scope and make only positive emotional notations
- be in the "now" for each shot

**Decide ahead of time your definition of a good shot.  Try not to include score in that definition.  Rather, look for the details to be in tune with your process and how you would like to see it progress.  This may seem like circular logic, but you can keep away from that by considering that group shooting shows more consistency than trying to duplicate a 10 that's actually a flier from the group.

****By hovering, I am referring to the settling of the aiming device into its natural pattern over the correct area for a centered shot.  Keep in mind that you should be balanced in the area.  IOW, if you have to exert pressure to stay in the area, you should address that before firing.  Abnormal pressure to hold center will move the shot placement.

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Re: Help me climb out

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on 5/31/2017, 9:50 pm

Ed as always, like the other HM shooters, a pleasure to read your posts.
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Re: Help me climb out

Post by Kermit Workman on 6/16/2017, 7:26 pm

Ed Hall,
 What do you mean by " no conscious corrections". Does that mean if the dot is left you don't try to move it to the center of the black?

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Re: Help me climb out

Post by Oleg G on 6/18/2017, 7:12 pm

What Ed means is actually in his post:
Ed Hall wrote:"settling of the aiming device into its natural pattern over the correct area for a centered shot.  Keep in mind that you should be balanced in the area."

This means that if the dot is left, this position will not result in the "centered shot." Time to put the gun down and adjust your stance, so that when you raise the gun the dot is wobbling in accordance with your hold around the CENTER of the target.
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Re: Help me climb out

Post by Ed Hall on 6/28/2017, 2:03 pm

Kermit Workman wrote:Ed Hall,
 What do you mean by " no conscious corrections". Does that mean if the dot is left you don't try to move it to the center of the black?
Correct!  This means to let the sight picture correct itself in its motion.  Your "arc" should be centered over your Area Of Aim and all excursions should return to that area on their own.  Some will be further than others, but the overall pattern will spend more time in the center.

If you are constantly "fixing" the picture by conscious corrections, you are, in effect, telling your process to, "wait until I fix this."  Each of those "waits" is a hesitation.  You want a determined uninterrupted operation without hesitations.

What I'm describing is often referred to as "accepting your hold."

Allow the sighting system to hover and operate the trigger without disturbing that hover, including disturbing it by conscious corrections.

If you follow the above, your group will more closely follow your hold and you will have less fliers.  Yes, some shots will be wide, but they will move in as your hold and subconscious actions learn and improve.  If you constantly consciously adjust your positioning, you are actually keeping your subconscious guessing.

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Re: Help me climb out

Post by Aprilian on 6/28/2017, 3:21 pm

Ed Hall wrote:Correct!  This means to let the sight picture correct itself in its motion.  Your "arc" should be centered over your Area Of Aim and all excursions should return to that area on their own.  Some will be further than others, but the overall pattern will spend more time in the center.

If you are constantly "fixing" the picture by conscious corrections, you are, in effect, telling your process to, "wait until I fix this."  Each of those "waits" is a hesitation.  You want a determined uninterrupted operation without hesitations.

What I'm describing is often referred to as "accepting your hold."

Allow the sighting system to hover and operate the trigger without disturbing that hover, including disturbing it by conscious corrections.

If you follow the above, your group will more closely follow your hold and you will have less fliers.  Yes, some shots will be wide, but they will move in as your hold and subconscious actions learn and improve.  If you constantly consciously adjust your positioning, you are actually keeping your subconscious guessing.
Ed, That has to be one of the best coaching tips I could ever be given.   I've printed it to mount on the wall in my dry-firing area and put in my box.
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Re: Help me climb out

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