Old Wives Tale?

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Old Wives Tale?

Post by Amanda4461 on 6/9/2017, 5:47 am

Hello folks,
While out practicing yesterday, ran across a fellow range member with a couple of custom Bullseye pistols. While shooting the breeze, he tells me that you are not supposed to remove the bushing from the slide/barrel to clean the guns after they have been hard-fit. First I heard of this. Considering the forces that the slide/barrel/bushing see with every firing, I have a substantial amount of doubt about his statement. The amount of wear and tear that I will place on a bushing/barrel/slide from taking them apart once a month can impact a pistol's accuracy? We aren't talking about disturbing a bedded M-1 Garand. If anyone has evidence of such damage, rather than just hear-say, please let me know.
My Jim Clark pistols all get cleaned regularly, and still manage to maintain the X-ring after many years and thousands of rounds, with plenty of cleaning in between.
Thanks!

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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by cdrt on 6/9/2017, 7:05 am

That's exactly what it is, an old wives tale.  I heard the same thing when I first started shooting Bullseye in 1974.  The bushing gets a whole lot more wear just from shooting it, certainly not from cleaning.
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by Jon Eulette on 6/9/2017, 7:48 am

I had to do some work on an old Clark 45 one time. 80 plus year old shooter who shoots a lot and never removed bushing from pistol to clean it since getting pistol from Clark in early 1980's. Holy cow the rust and crap that built up that you couldn't see. Take'em apart and clean them. It's not a high wear part.
Jon
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by Magload on 6/9/2017, 8:31 am

The only fit I could see effected would be the bushing to slide fit.  If one was to clean the gun everyday after shooting it could loosen a small amount.  My LB was so tight that it was hard to remove with a bushing wrench and now it still needs a wrench but is not quite as tight, and I don't clean often.  So maybe after cleaning 2 or 3 times a week for 50 years it maybe only finger tight.  I don't think you would ever see a change in accuracy.  Don
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by AllAces on 6/9/2017, 8:35 am

It's more like an old Bullseye shooter's tale.
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/9/2017, 9:16 am

Some bullseye smiths still recommend you not pull them out.
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by Tim:H11 on 6/9/2017, 9:19 am

How else are you gonna get the barrel out to clean?
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/9/2017, 9:26 am

Tim:H11 wrote:How else are you gonna get the barrel out to clean?
I clean mine easily without taking it. Some use an ultra sonic cleaner
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by zanemoseley on 6/9/2017, 9:34 am

Tim:H11 wrote:How else are you gonna get the barrel out to clean?
I was sorta thinking that too but I guess once you have the slide off you could angle the barrel down in the back and slide it out, seems awkward but guess its possible. Its possible you might do more damage removing the barrel that way then you're saving by not taking out the bushing.

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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by kc.crawford.7 on 6/9/2017, 5:13 pm

If the bushing has been fit properly to the slide and barrel taking it out / apart for cleaning in a non issue.
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by joy2shoot on 6/9/2017, 5:57 pm

I agree with Jon and KC.  But if you have a two piece guide rod or a short guide rod, there is a way to separate the bushing from the barrel without twisting the bushing around the fitted end of the barrel if you so desire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2j2b21OGmU

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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/9/2017, 7:04 pm

joy2shoot wrote:I agree with Jon and KC.  But if you have a two piece guide rod or a short guide rod, there is a way to separate the bushing from the barrel without twisting the bushing around the fitted end of the barrel if you so desire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2j2b21OGmU
I have a two piece guide rod. On the rare occasion I pull my barrel out I break the guide rod loose with Allen wrench, slide slide back to take down notch, pop out slide pin whole slide comes off with spring. Then push on guide rod unthread, pull out spring, plug, and guide rod from back. Slide barrel forward use wrench to turn bushing and hammer out bushing using the barrel


Last edited by Chris Miceli on 6/9/2017, 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 6/9/2017, 7:11 pm

joy2shoot wrote:I agree with Jon and KC.  But if you have a two piece guide rod or a short guide rod, there is a way to separate the bushing from the barrel without twisting the bushing around the fitted end of the barrel if you so desire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2j2b21OGmU

Thanks for linking the video, now I just have to get a gun dirty so I can practice a better way.  sunny
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by Magload on 6/9/2017, 7:22 pm

Mine should stay accurate a long time since I don't like cleaning them.  Don
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by zanemoseley on 6/9/2017, 8:03 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:
joy2shoot wrote:I agree with Jon and KC.  But if you have a two piece guide rod or a short guide rod, there is a way to separate the bushing from the barrel without twisting the bushing around the fitted end of the barrel if you so desire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2j2b21OGmU
I have a two piece guide rod. On the rare occasion I pull my barrel out I break the guide rod loose with Allen wrench, slide slide back to take down notch, pop out slide pin whole slide comes off with spring. Then push on guide rod unthread, pull out spring, plug, and guide rod from back. Slide barrel forward use wrench to turn bushing and hammer out bushing using the barrel


So Chris does that mean you don't clean you pistol often or do you try to clean the barrel while installed? Seems like trying to clean while installed would be an easy way to damage something. My 45 gets all kinds of dirty, I clean if I shoot at least 100 rounds.

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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/9/2017, 8:15 pm

zanemoseley wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:
joy2shoot wrote:I agree with Jon and KC.  But if you have a two piece guide rod or a short guide rod, there is a way to separate the bushing from the barrel without twisting the bushing around the fitted end of the barrel if you so desire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2j2b21OGmU
I have a two piece guide rod. On the rare occasion I pull my barrel out I break the guide rod loose with Allen wrench, slide slide back to take down notch, pop out slide pin whole slide comes off with spring. Then push on guide rod unthread, pull out spring, plug, and guide rod from back. Slide barrel forward use wrench to turn bushing and hammer out bushing using the barrel


So Chris does that mean you don't clean you pistol often or do you try to clean the barrel while installed? Seems like trying to clean while installed would be an easy way to damage something. My 45 gets all kinds of dirty, I clean if I shoot at least 100 rounds.
I clean the lower end the most, followed by the rails,breach face, and extractor.  None of my barrels lead up I will inspect my chamber and throw in some kroil followed by some ramrodz to clean the chamber or a bore brush just for the chamber and the leads. 

If that doesn't clean it up well enough I will take apart the gun and scope but leave the barrel in and throw it in 
the ultra sonic cleaner.

The only time I'll pull out my barrel is to scrub it when switching back and forth from lead and jacked....I'll probably stop this cause I haven't really found hard evidence of harming anything by shooting both.....but that's for another forum post.
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by Larry2520 on 6/9/2017, 8:34 pm

Don't quote me but I think the Marine manual says to take it apart after 500 rounds for cleaning.

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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by Froneck on 6/10/2017, 1:06 pm

Looking at that video it seem that bushing is quite loose, he took it out and in with ease, used the wench to turn it but when it wasn't quite right used his fingers to get it in place. May have been loose for the video!
 I always take the slide off the frame, saves looking for the plug when as it usually will shoot across the room. Besides it's a lot easier to use the wrench when there is no plug and spring to push in. I agree that if the bushing is properly fit it's not going to matter if removed. Heck too loose and it will fall out and too tight more damage will probably be done taking it out than the wear that will result from removing it.

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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by Brian Mason on 6/11/2017, 11:54 pm

David Sams recommends not removing the bushing. His reasoning is since there's a little slop in lining up the bushing with the spring plug you'll never get the bushing lined up in the same way twice, thus affecting wear between the barrel and the bushing. You would still clean the gun often, but you would brush the barrel while in the slide from the front using a muzzle protector on your cleaning rod.

I take this idea one several step further in that I clean by removing only the grips and the magazine. I won't go into details but my method involves a solution of carbon tetrachloride/benzene, a resonant acoustic mixer, and a vacuum oven. Lubrication is done with only unadulterated, pre-ban sperm whale oil.

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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by Froneck on 6/12/2017, 6:29 am

I doubt that a few degrees if that much of a change in bushing rotation is going to effect barrel wear! I know quite a few High Masters that remove the bushing often to clean the gun yet the gun is accurate and able to deliver high master scores. Furthermore after a shooting the 1911 for a while quite a bit of residue builds up on the top lugs that will be impossible to clean without removing the barrel or using rather toxic chemicals and special equipment. If a slide mount scope were used it would require removing the scope.
That 50X as tested by the AMU 1911 I built for Adam had the bushing removed many times before it was tested and is still shooting great groups being over 20 years old! If removing the bushing caused the gun to become inaccurate it's probably because the bushing wasn't done right.

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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by rich.tullo on 6/13/2017, 9:01 am

kc.crawford.7 wrote:If the bushing has been fit properly to the slide and barrel taking it out / apart for cleaning in a non issue.


He knows!

If you want to make an extra effort take the gun out of battery and turn the bushing when it's not touching the barrel. 

If you want to extend the life of your bushing make sure its clean and the barrel is lubricated because dirt will where down the surfaces.
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

Post by rich.tullo on 6/13/2017, 9:31 am

Step On: Make sure chamber is empty, and no magazine is in the gun and rack the slide 

Step Two: Remove guide end rod if two piece 

Step three: Remove slide and rest of the guide rod, and spring. 

Step four: Push barrel forward. 

Step five: Turn bushing counter-clockwise 

Step six remove barrel and bushing. If the busing in super tight on the slide a gentle tap with the barrel as you bring the barrel forward to remove it should make the busing come out enough to gently remove it.

I use a barrel snake pretty much after every 100/200 rounds to clean the carbon out and clean the barrel only once every 500 to 2000 rounds. With VV310 and WST I have never really seen the need to clean the barrel before 1000 rounds or more. 

If you use a 2 piece guide rod you can clean the lower and most of the slide as needed and leave the barrel alone. 

The only reason to clean the barrel is if you are losing accuracy or if the gun is failing to extract or go into battery. Even then it's probably a dirty extractor and rails rather than the barrel and chamber. 

To Assemble 

Step I Lube rails, disconnector shelf, slide, ejector, barrel, bushing ect. I like a wet 1911. 

Step 2 Install barrel, spring and guide rod

Step 3 Install slide and mag catch

Step 4 with pistol out of battery with about an inch of barrel exposed turn bushing and install guide rod cap. 

Step 5 Install guide rod 2nd piece hand tighten 

Step 6 with pistol out of battery again finish tightening the guide rod. Sometimes a 2 piece can get hung up in the dustcover and tighten out of battery has worked for me.

I do not like 1 piece extended GRs because that is the worst of both worlds and the major reason for me to use the 2 piece is to avoid dismantling the upper ever time the lower is a little dirty. I also prepped the surface of the GR with 3000 grit sand paper and that seems to help function. 

Rack pistol and perform safety inspection and you should be GTG.
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Re: Old Wives Tale?

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