marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

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marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by SW-52 on 6/23/2017, 9:49 am

hi,i want to know what is the best conversion(marvel vs nelson) unit in accuracy and the advantage of threaded barrel(dont like compensator in 22). is for a future project,the only dont like about nelsons dont ship to PR.
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/23/2017, 11:20 pm

The best conversion in accuracy is buying a conversion then chucking the barrel and getting a custom one made. Smile 
The factory barrels most of the time is good enough for us mortals though. 

I'm hunting for a Keefer 22 barrel.....don't ever see them for sale though.

the Nelson threaded barrel its roughly the length of the marvel no comp. is .24" gonna do anything?
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by Jon Eulette on 6/23/2017, 11:37 pm

Older Marvels that I've tested always shot .6-.7 with cheap stuff. .5-.6 with better. I've been lucky.
Jon
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by Jack H on 6/24/2017, 12:40 am

I had 3-4 Marvel Precision units that I Ransomed 1" at best.  Maybe 7/8" with Eley.  But I do 10 or more shots.  Not the 5 they send out with their units.  RWS was always good too.  Within my 10 there could be 5 in a row that beat 1".  Maybe the middle 5 did it. 

About the Marvel itself, I have to have the hold open feature.  I tried the steel lockback, but the recoil feel was disturbing to me.  Now I have 4 Nelsons and one AA.  The AA is just as good as the Nelsons, as long as the screwed on stop insert holds up.  My present AA has the squarish plate behind the stop.  So far real good with it.  The first design insert with screws front and back broke twice on me.
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by SW-52 on 6/24/2017, 5:55 am

Jon Eulette wrote:Older Marvels that I've tested always shot .6-.7 with cheap stuff. .5-.6 with better. I've been lucky.
Jon
2006 or before??
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by BE Mike on 6/24/2017, 8:27 am

I pretty much quit worrying about .22 accuracy. As long as my pistol/ ammo will shoot in the X ring at 50 yards (1.6") I'm a happy camper. I ordered a Marvel threaded barrel about a year ago as a suppressor host. Before they shipped it, they did a 50 yard machine rest test. It groups better than the original barrel that came with the conversion, but both are sub-X ring.
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/24/2017, 8:48 am

I have heard that few conversions tested like the buttons that came with them
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by BE Mike on 6/24/2017, 9:51 am

Chris Miceli wrote:I have heard that few conversions tested like the buttons that came with them
Marvel may use a barrel tester rather than a complete gun for testing, but I have no idea.
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by SW-52 on 6/24/2017, 12:25 pm

i see one marvel conversion unit with 5 shots  in a medallion at 50 yards group .647'' with signum ammo.
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/24/2017, 12:40 pm

HSW-52 wrote:i see one marvel conversion unit with 5 shots  in a medallion at 50 yards group .647'' with signum ammo.
Very few can generate the same target size as the button.
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by Jon Eulette on 6/24/2017, 12:43 pm

SW-52 wrote:
Jon Eulette wrote:Older Marvels that I've tested always shot .6-.7 with cheap stuff. .5-.6 with better. I've been lucky.
Jon
2006 or before??

Around that time frame. Probably just before.
Most people don't use a Ransom correctly Smile The euro factories actually use a machinist vise bolted to a pedestal for resting. When I toured Hammerli in 1994 I actually was able to machine rest a pistol like that. I just did some work on a friends Marvel and just shot it from hand. With cvi sv it was extremely tight and all shots exactly on call. That pistol was a .6 from Marvel. When we first rested it, it shot .5-.6 with various ammunition at 50 yds. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot that pistol in any match. It's that good. John Zurek was regularly in 890's with his Marvel. 
Jon
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/24/2017, 12:48 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:
SW-52 wrote:
Jon Eulette wrote:Older Marvels that I've tested always shot .6-.7 with cheap stuff. .5-.6 with better. I've been lucky.
Jon
2006 or before??

Around that time frame. Probably just before.
Most people don't use a Ransom correctly Smile The euro factories actually use a machinist vise bolted to a pedestal for resting. When I toured Hammerli in 1994 I actually was able to machine rest a pistol like that. I just did some work on a friends Marvel and just shot it from hand. With cvi sv it was extremely tight and all shots exactly on call. That pistol was a .6 from Marvel. When we first rested it, it shot .5-.6 with various ammunition at 50 yds. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot that pistol in any match. It's that good. John Zurek was regularly in 890's with his Marvel. 
Jon
1994.... oh man I don't think I had even started grade school. 

W/ love
Chris
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.22 LR Accuracy

Post by Richard Ashmore on 6/24/2017, 1:59 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:I have heard that few conversions tested like the buttons that came with them

  I once had the opportunity to go to the Eley Customer Range with three (3) Hammerli pistols to lot-test TENEX.  There were seventeen (17) lots available to test while I was there.  I was able to identify for each pistol a lot of ammunition that would shoot forty (40) shot groups at 50 meters of ~0.9 inches.  The biggest groups were ~1.5 inches.  There was no correlation from lot to lot and pistol to pistol.  


  My conclusion was that every barrel is unique, as is every lot of ammunition, and testing ammunition from a specific lot of ammunition in a specific barrel tells you how that specific lot of ammunition performs in that specific barrel, and not much else.
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/24/2017, 2:08 pm

Richard Ashmore wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:I have heard that few conversions tested like the buttons that came with them

  I once had the opportunity to go to the Eley Customer Range with three (3) Hammerli pistols to lot-test TENEX.  There were seventeen (17) lots available to test while I was there.  I was able to identify for each pistol a lot of ammunition that would shoot forty (40) shot groups at 50 meters of ~0.9 inches.  The biggest groups were ~1.5 inches.  There was no correlation from lot to lot and pistol to pistol.  


  My conclusion was that every barrel is unique, as is every lot of ammunition, and testing ammunition from a specific lot of ammunition in a specific barrel tells you how that specific lot of ammunition performs in that specific barrel, and not much else.
I called eley and Lapua and neither have a setup for a 1911 style 22. Maybe it's the fact they have magazines in the grip
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by Jack H on 6/24/2017, 3:23 pm

I will repeat my report on a Advantage Arms Ransom test.

I could tell the price of the ammo from the group results. 
Eley did best at 1".  AA claims no better than that.
Reasonably priced ammo was just over 1"
Cheaper ammo like Armscor was pushing 2"
All this just as AA said

The real surprise was CCI Green Tag.  Green tag grouped 4" and worse.  Nothing happened to the Ransom set up.  I went back to Eley and shot 1".  Shot GT again and got 4"-5".

I conclude a bad batch of GT, or the AA just didn't like it. 

My Ransom set up and work is good as I have this test from my OPA gun.
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by BE Mike on 6/24/2017, 3:50 pm

Jack H wrote:I will repeat my report on a Advantage Arms Ransom test.

I could tell the price of the ammo from the group results. 
Eley did best at 1".  AA claims no better than that.
Reasonably priced ammo was just over 1"
Cheaper ammo like Armscor was pushing 2"
All this just as AA said

The real surprise was CCI Green Tag.  Green tag grouped 4" and worse.  Nothing happened to the Ransom set up.  I went back to Eley and shot 1".  Shot GT again and got 4"-5".

I conclude a bad batch of GT, or the AA just didn't like it. 

My Ransom set up and work is good as I have this test from my OPA gun.
I never got Green Tag to group better than CCI SV, but CCI Pistol Match, well that was another story!
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by Dr.Don on 6/24/2017, 4:45 pm

I have never had a pistol shoot Green Tag as well as common CCI SV.  It was always worse.
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by JIMPGOV on 6/24/2017, 8:13 pm

THIS WAS NOT FIRED BY ME. BUT IT WAS FIRED BY A FRIEND OF MINE . MARVEL 20 SHOT TARGET. 4 - 5 ROUND MAGS WERE USED . ALL INFORMATION IS ON THE TARGET. JP
Attachments
Marvel20161023.pdf You don't have permission to download attachments.(595 Kb) Downloaded 40 times

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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on 6/24/2017, 10:51 pm

These Nelson conversion test targets were fired from an H.E.G. rest after the barrel crown was corrected.  The groups were about 40% larger prior to that.
Unfortunately, this barrel has expensive tastes...lol.  Aguila Super Extra not shown, but the group size was even larger than the CCI SV.

CCI SV 
1.993" 
10 shots @ 50 yds



Eley TENEX
.77" 
10 shots @ 50 yards



Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on 6/25/2017, 10:41 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/25/2017, 12:02 am

JayhawkNavy02 wrote:These Nelson conversion test targets were fired from an H.E.G. rest after the barrel crown was corrected.  The groups were about 40% larger prior to that.
Unfortunately, this barrel has expensive tastes...lol
CCI SV 
1.993" 
10 shots @ 50 yds



Eley TENEX
.77" 
10 shots @ 50 yards

I believe eley match comes off the same machine as the tennex
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Eley Ammunition

Post by Richard Ashmore on 6/25/2017, 7:16 am

Chris said:  "I believe eley match comes off the same machine as the tennex "

Correct; when I visited there were two production lines, white bullet and black bullet.  TENEX was what was supposed to come off the white bullet line.  After a batch was made it was tested at the QA range.  How it performed in their reference barrels determined what label went on the box.  It a batch met the TENEX criteria it got a red label.  If not, it got another label depending on how far off it was.
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by SW-52 on 6/25/2017, 7:53 am

Is a good deal buy a used marvel conversion?
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/25/2017, 10:01 am

SW-52 wrote:Is a good deal buy a used marvel conversion?
Usually, the real harm is damaging the barrel from miss handling or abuse.  I would check the slide some of the older marvels would crack and I believe a new slide would be required
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by jmdavis on 6/25/2017, 10:04 am

With a good price I would say yes, buy a used conversion. Mine is very accurate but it is hard on my elbow to shoot all three 900s with a 1911 grip, angle.
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/25/2017, 10:09 am

jmdavis wrote:With a good price I would say yes, buy a used conversion. Mine is very accurate but it is hard on my elbow to shoot all three 900s with a 1911 grip, angle.
Get a new elbow Smile
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Re: marvel conversion vs nelson conversion

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