New Bullseye Shooter

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New Bullseye Shooter

Post by KCisco on 7/2/2017, 7:13 pm

Hi everyone.  I am a relatively new shooter - I have been shooting IDPA and USPSA for less than a year (as well as High Power Rifle).  I currently have a Springfield XD-M 9mm 5.25 Competition that I use for IDPA and USPSA.

I just returned from Camp Perry where I did the SAFS for pistols and competed in the EIC match that was held for those who took the class.  I really enjoyed it a lot (and placed 86th out of 194 people - which I was very happy with, given my newbie-status to shooting overall).

I definitely want to do more of the bullseye shooting.  From what I understand, I can shoot my current Springfield pistol, but it may not be the best option?  It seems from what I can tell that a 1911 is the way to go? 

I really like 9mm - is that something that I can continue to shoot and do well with in bullseye?

What are some good option for a 1911 (that doesn't cost a ton of money) to get to start out with? (even if I need to have work done on it as I go along).  I just want a solid, reliable, good quality gun that will serve me well in this sport as I am starting out and allow me to be competitive. 

Thank you in advance for any advice anyone can give!

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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by NuJudge on 7/2/2017, 7:28 pm

Lots of rules.  You shot an EIC match at the SAFS - Pistol.  There are a number of threads here on minor modifications to the XD family of pistols, making them competitive in EIC matches.  The CMP changed the EIC rules a little while ago to allow seemingly most anything in EIC matches.  I have no personal experience with XD pistols.  

The traditional Bullseye match is shot with .22, with some center fire, and with some .45.  Beginners frequently use a .45 for both centerfire and .45.  I shoot the Beretta 92 a lot better than the 1911, so have had a 92 modified for EIC and Bullseye Centerfire, and there would seem no reason you can not use an XD for centerfire.  

There is a stickied thread on having the Springfield Range Officer modified at low cost for Bullseye use.  I have gone in this direction also, and gotten a Nelson .22 match quality conversion.

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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by BE Mike on 7/2/2017, 7:33 pm

Good to see new blood in the sport. You'll need guns capable of grouping within 3" at 50 yards. The guns should have adjustable sights and be reliable. The course is laid out for .22 caliber, any centerfire caliber and .45 ACP. Most folks double up in centerfire with the .45 Auto and also use it for the .45 matches. A Ruger MK pistol is a good starter .22 for not a lot of money and there are a lot of upgrades and after market parts available. These days, many folks who have limited funds, start out with a Springfield Range Officer, out of the box. Competitors use .22 standard velocity ammo. CCI's Standard Velocity is a good starting ammo and not terribly pricey. Most competitors reload their .45 ACP, but if you don't reload now, you can get some good target .45 ACP reloads from Roze Distribution. This would be a decent starter load: http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RZD&Product_Code=R703-A&Category_Code=ZBA-45ACP You'll want some kind of optics to spot your shots at 50 yards. Most competitors use a pistol box with a spotting scope attached. You can start out just shooting the .22, if your funds are limited and add the .45 ACP as funds allow. I started out with a Ruger MK I, a couple of magazines (you need at least two for each gun), a bag to hold the gun, ammo and stuff and a small spotting scope on table top tripod. You can shoot your Springfield XD in the centerfire match, so if you just want to shoot the centerfire match to start, that would be ok, too. Take a look at the NRA Rulebook and it'll give you an idea of how the match goes and the equipment used. Here's a link: http://compete.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/Pistol/pistol-book.pdf I'm sure others will come along with better ideas for getting started, but this will give you some things to consider and look over.
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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by KCisco on 7/2/2017, 8:52 pm

Thank you both for the good information.

Just curious, why is it that .22 and .45 ACP seem to be what most people shoot?  (I see most recommendations are for either of those)

My husband has been shooting forever (mainly high power) and he does all of our reloading.  What is the best powder to use in reloading?

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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by jglenn21 on 7/2/2017, 9:13 pm

rules dictate the need for the 22, 45 and a centerfire pistol  (30-45 caliber).

you can find the rules on the NRA competition site



http://www.competitions.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/Pistol/pistol-book.pdf
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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by zanemoseley on 7/2/2017, 9:30 pm

The cheapest good quality beginner setup would be a Springfield Range Officer, off the rack will cost you $650. If you have the cash I would gut the ignition components and replace with quality components, I would also have the barrel replaced with a Kart match barrel, this work will cost you $800-$900 on top of the $650.

Add a Nelson .22 conversion that you can use on the Range Officer frame and you're right at $2k for a setup very capable of winning matches. If you prefer red dots over irons they will cost $200 each.

You can still use your 9mm for the centerfire leg but as said above most people use their .45 for it.

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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by troystaten on 7/2/2017, 10:04 pm

For the 45 there are a lot of options for reloading powder, Bulleye is a classic, w231/HP-38 as well as WST are some favorites.  I find the 45 more pleasant to shoot than most 9mm loads, mostly because of the louder noise from the faster 9mm bullets.  I know some people have made 9mm's that shoot a lower velocity ammo as well.  The bigger hole from the 45 is nice as well.  I am know means an expert (both in skill and in ability) but I love shooting bulleye style pistols.

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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by KCisco on 7/2/2017, 10:51 pm

jglenn21 wrote:rules dictate the need for the 22, 45 and a centerfire pistol  (30-45 caliber).

you can find the rules on the NRA competition site

Thank you for the link.  I don't want to sound stupid - but I'm looking through and see each of the 22, 45, and centerfire listed in the rule book, but cannot find where I need all 3.  Am I understanding your post correctly that you need all of these?  Can you point me to the section of the rulebook that I need to focus on?  Or is it just that there are different competitions depending on what you are shooting?  Like I said, I am really new to all of this :-)

Thanks for your help!

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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by KCisco on 7/2/2017, 10:57 pm

zanemoseley wrote:The cheapest good quality beginner setup would be a Springfield Range Officer, off the rack will cost you $650. If you have the cash I would gut the ignition components and replace with quality components, I would also have the barrel replaced with a Kart match barrel, this work will cost you $800-$900 on top of the $650.

Add a Nelson .22 conversion that you can use on the Range Officer frame and you're right at $2k for a setup very capable of winning matches. If you prefer red dots over irons they will cost $200 each.

You can still use your 9mm for the centerfire leg but as said above most people use their .45 for it.
Thank you!  I do like the looks of the Range Officer, and I do love Springfield.  Is there a gunsmith that's good to use for the modifications.  I know in High Power, we use John Holliger when we need something done to a rifle, so I am wondering if there are similar people for bullseye gunsmiths?  

As for the Nelson conversions, we came across them on vendor's row at Camp Perry - they were all very nice.  My husband actually just ordered one for his Colt Gold Cup .45, so in about 9-12 weeks, we'll see how it works on his gun :-)

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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by KCisco on 7/2/2017, 10:58 pm

troystaten wrote:For the 45 there are a lot of options for reloading powder, Bulleye is a classic, w231/HP-38 as well as WST are some favorites.  I find the 45 more pleasant to shoot than most 9mm loads, mostly because of the louder noise from the faster 9mm bullets.  I know some people have made 9mm's that shoot a lower velocity ammo as well.  The bigger hole from the 45 is nice as well.  I am know means an expert (both in skill and in ability) but I love shooting bulleye style pistols.
Thank you so much for the information.  We almost picked up some Bullseye powder at Camp Perry, but wanted to check around before buying it.

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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by desben on 7/3/2017, 5:14 am

KCisco wrote: I'm looking through and see each of the 22, 45, and centerfire listed in the rule book, but cannot find where I need all 3.

A full match is a 2700. It is composed of 3 matches of 900 each, with the different calibers.

  1. The first 900 is with 22lr, and nothing else will do.
  2. The second 900 is with a centerfire. It can be shot using any centerfire, .32 or larger. You could shoot your 9mm here, or a 45.
  3. The final 900 is the .45 match. It needs to be shot with a .45 and nothing else will do.


Given the above constraints, most people find that shooting a 22lr for the first match, and 45 for the other two is the simplest option. Now, if you only had a 22lr and a 9mm, a nice match director may let you shoot the whole thing "off the record" if you ask politely. But you'll need a 45 if you want to compete.

A good 22 is an invaluable training tool. Get one if you don't have one already. And shoot 10,000 rounds through it, to start with.
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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by james r chapman on 7/3/2017, 6:36 am

I believe at Perry you can also shoot the 2700 with the .22 as a separate event.
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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by Chris Miceli on 7/3/2017, 6:48 am

james r chapman wrote:I believe at Perry you can also shoot the 2700 with the .22 as a separate event.
Can shoot 22 only at any 2700 if the match programs allows I believe
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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by zanemoseley on 7/3/2017, 6:56 am

KCisco wrote:
zanemoseley wrote:The cheapest good quality beginner setup would be a Springfield Range Officer, off the rack will cost you $650. If you have the cash I would gut the ignition components and replace with quality components, I would also have the barrel replaced with a Kart match barrel, this work will cost you $800-$900 on top of the $650.

Add a Nelson .22 conversion that you can use on the Range Officer frame and you're right at $2k for a setup very capable of winning matches. If you prefer red dots over irons they will cost $200 each.

You can still use your 9mm for the centerfire leg but as said above most people use their .45 for it.
Thank you!  I do like the looks of the Range Officer, and I do love Springfield.  Is there a gunsmith that's good to use for the modifications.  I know in High Power, we use John Holliger when we need something done to a rifle, so I am wondering if there are similar people for bullseye gunsmiths?  

As for the Nelson conversions, we came across them on vendor's row at Camp Perry - they were all very nice.  My husband actually just ordered one for his Colt Gold Cup .45, so in about 9-12 weeks, we'll see how it works on his gun :-)

Just sent you a PM with gunsmith recommendations.

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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by james r chapman on 7/3/2017, 6:56 am

Chris Miceli wrote:
james r chapman wrote:I believe at Perry you can also shoot the 2700 with the .22 as a separate event.
Can shoot 22 only at any 2700 if the match programs allows I believe
Even better!! 
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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by Chris Miceli on 7/3/2017, 7:11 am

You KCisco wrote:Hi everyone.  I am a relatively new shooter - I have been shooting IDPA and USPSA for less than a year (as well as High Power Rifle).  I currently have a Springfield XD-M 9mm 5.25 Competition that I use for IDPA and USPSA.

I just returned from Camp Perry where I did the SAFS for pistols and competed in the EIC match that was held for those who took the class.  I really enjoyed it a lot (and placed 86th out of 194 people - which I was very happy with, given my newbie-status to shooting overall).

I definitely want to do more of the bullseye shooting.  From what I understand, I can shoot my current Springfield pistol, but it may not be the best option?  It seems from what I can tell that a 1911 is the way to go? 

I really like 9mm - is that something that I can continue to shoot and do well with in bullseye?

What are some good option for a 1911 (that doesn't cost a ton of money) to get to start out with? (even if I need to have work done on it as I go along).  I just want a solid, reliable, good quality gun that will serve me well in this sport as I am starting out and allow me to be competitive. 

Thank you in advance for any advice anyone can give!
You could shoot matches with what you have. A 1911 45 Springfield range officer is a great start for a Center fire and 45 for bullseye. If your goal is Distingushed stick with irons for a bit. I legged out for Distingushed with a XDM 5.25 in 45(thanks motorcycle Dan)
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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by SW-52 on 7/3/2017, 10:26 am

Range officer is a Great Pistol,with less money or lot money. i have one and is on the process to accurize(kart barrel,EGW Bushing,oversized slide stop,scope mount and aimpoint H-1 Red Dot). recently i bought a marvel conversion unit .647" at 50 yards,additional i have a High standard supermatic trophy with LSP aluma barrel,scope mount and ultradot 25". i recommend for the range officer the EGW two piece guide rod and kensight sharkskin grips,the better grips for the money,more cheapest at brownells. i have a 52-2 .38 wadcutter and i use to shoot at 25 yards,great pistol. for accurate the range officer,contact kc crawford at kcskustomcreations.com or the gunsmith of your preference.
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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by KCisco on 7/3/2017, 1:48 pm

desben wrote:

  1. The first 900 is with 22lr, and nothing else will do.
  2. The second 900 is with a centerfire. It can be shot using any centerfire, .32 or larger. You could shoot your 9mm here, or a 45.
  3. The final 900 is the .45 match. It needs to be shot with a .45 and nothing else will do.


Given the above constraints, most people find that shooting a 22lr for the first match, and 45 for the other two is the simplest option. Now, if you only had a 22lr and a 9mm, a nice match director may let you shoot the whole thing "off the record" if you ask politely. But you'll need a 45 if you want to compete.

A good 22 is an invaluable training tool. Get one if you don't have one already. And shoot 10,000 rounds through it, to start with.

Thank you so much for this explanation.  I did not understand that before.  That makes sense.  I really appreciate the information!

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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by KCisco on 7/3/2017, 1:50 pm

SW-52 wrote:Range officer is a Great Pistol,with less money or lot money. i have one and is on the process to accurize(kart barrel,EGW Bushing,oversized slide stop,scope mount and aimpoint H-1 Red Dot). recently i bought a marvel conversion unit .647" at 50 yards,additional i have a High standard supermatic trophy with LSP aluma barrel,scope mount and ultradot 25". i recommend for the range officer the EGW two piece guide rod and kensight sharkskin grips,the better grips for the money,more cheapest at brownells. i have a 52-2 .38 wadcutter and i use to shoot at 25 yards,great pistol. for accurate the range officer,contact kc crawford at kcskustomcreations.com or the gunsmith of your preference.

thank you!

KCisco

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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by KCisco on 7/3/2017, 6:07 pm

Thank you to everyone who has offered advice and suggestions.  I really appreciate it.  I've learned a lot - just from this thread.  I'm sure I'll be back for more advice!  Thank you!

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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by SMBeyer on 7/4/2017, 8:34 pm

SW-52 wrote:Range officer is a Great Pistol,with less money or lot money. i have one and is on the process to accurize(kart barrel,EGW Bushing,oversized slide stop,scope mount and aimpoint H-1 Red Dot). recently i bought a marvel conversion unit .647" at 50 yards,additional i have a High standard supermatic trophy with LSP aluma barrel,scope mount and ultradot 25". i recommend for the range officer the EGW two piece guide rod and kensight sharkskin grips,the better grips for the money,more cheapest at brownells. i have a 52-2 .38 wadcutter and i use to shoot at 25 yards,great pistol. for accurate the range officer,contact kc crawford at kcskustomcreations.com or the gunsmith of your preference.
Why would you put an over sized slide stop pin in a gun getting a new barrel?
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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by SMBeyer on 7/4/2017, 8:47 pm

KCisco,welcome to the sport.   Somewhere you mentioned your husband so I'm gonna assume you are female and my 14yr old daughter would love to have you shoot with her!  Apologies if I'm assuming incorrectly.

The Range Officer is an excellent gun and a great inexpensive way to get into the sport.  I have one I bought to go distinguished and had minimal work done (trigger job and a bushing).  A good trigger job is essential and pretty much gonna be a requirement.  Judging from mine and another one a fellow shooter has the stock barrels shoot pretty darn good.  I don't think you would notice the difference for a very long time.  I did have a bushing put in mine and it shot really well for me.  I doubt mine was shot more than 1,000 rounds so I don't know how long it would have been accurate with the factory barrel fit but it was very good while I was shooting it.

I think you would be very pleased with a RO, trigger job, bushing and a bunch of trigger time!

Scott
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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by KCisco on 7/4/2017, 10:09 pm

Scott -

Thanks! You are right to assume I am female :-) Shooting with your daughter would be fun - she could probably teach me a thing or two :-)

I'm currently looking at a couple range officers. Hopefully I'll have one soon and can get any needed upgrades done.

To everyone who gave gunsmith recommendations, thank you again. My husband has a colt gold cup he's talking with Dave Salyer about. Sounds like he's our man to upgrade his gun.

I'm so glad i found this forum. The advice and information here is invaluable!

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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by BE Mike on 7/5/2017, 8:30 am

KCisco wrote:Scott -

Thanks! You are right to assume I am female :-) Shooting with your daughter would be fun - she could probably teach me a thing or two :-)

I'm currently looking at a couple range officers.  Hopefully I'll have one soon and can get any needed upgrades done.

To everyone who gave gunsmith recommendations,  thank you again.   My husband has a colt gold cup he's talking with Dave Salyer about. Sounds like he's our man to upgrade his gun.

I'm so glad i found this forum. The advice and information here is invaluable!
Dave Salyer is a great guy and doesn't really charge what his work is worth, IMHO. He doesn't do anything for cosmetics, but his pistols will shoot and shoot well!
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Re: New Bullseye Shooter

Post by troystaten on 7/5/2017, 11:04 am

If you or your husband has Dave work over your pistols ask him about his engraving his name on the slide, some people like that but if your husband decides to re-sell his Gold cup it could effect the resale value as a collectors item.  Not a criticism of his work just an item of note. I have a Springfield 1911 that he did and it shoots well.

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