Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

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Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by orpheoet on 7/4/2017, 8:36 pm

I now have two 25-2s with large throats. 0.455" So far nothing is grouping at 50 yards in the one, the other I just received. A more experienced shooter suggested swaged 200 gr LSWC for better obturation. Or I could get hard cast sized 0.454". Thoughts?
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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by james r chapman on 7/4/2017, 8:37 pm

hard cast .454
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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by orpheoet on 7/4/2017, 8:38 pm

james r chapman wrote:hard cast .454
How fast? Can you suggest a load with Bullseye or WST?
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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by james r chapman on 7/4/2017, 8:48 pm

I'd just try your regular .45 acp loads. maybe try some Dardas .454 185 cast semi-wadcutters.
probable 3.8 gr BE.
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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by orpheoet on 7/4/2017, 8:55 pm

james r chapman wrote:I'd just try your regular .45 acp loads. maybe try some Dardas .454 185 cast semi-wadcutters.
probable 3.8 gr BE.
That's the plan now, thanks.
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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by USSR on 5/10/2018, 8:43 am

My apology for resurrecting this old thread, but if anyone is in need of large (.455") lead SWC bullets (H&G #68 clone) for their S&W Model 25's, I have a new special order MP mould that casts them.   I've got a 25-2 myself with the large throats.

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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by bruce martindale on 5/14/2018, 8:25 pm

Some of the old Lyman moulds will cast large, and alloy matters too. Antimonial leads expand as they cool whereas higher lead proportions cause a shrink effect. Drive them hard l am told by successful revolver shooters, Kent and Babe. Regards

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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by BE Mike on 5/15/2018, 8:35 am

The July/ August, 2018 issue of "The American Handgunner" magazine has a short article about reloading for the 25-2.
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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by bruce martindale on 5/15/2018, 2:39 pm

And their major points are? Thanks

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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by Wobbley on 5/15/2018, 3:20 pm

Handloader magazine did a “Pet Loads” feature on the 45 Auto Rim cartridge and they touched in the throat diameter of revolvers. They stated that pre-war revolvers from either make varied from .454 to .456 inch. The test revolvers were two 25-2s one with throats of .454 and the other had throats of .456. The .454 revolver was used for accuracy testing. I think the key to good accuracy in the 25 and most revolvers generally is to shoot bullets with as long a bearing surface as possible. SWC bullets with short stubby noses like the “button” might be better than a #68 style. The bore diameter portion of the old Hardball bullet was likely the culprit for poor accuracy of these guns. In the pistol tested, it had a definite preference for Titegroup when shooting cast bullets.
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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by BE Mike on 5/16/2018, 7:32 am

bruce martindale wrote:And their major points are?  Thanks
Bullets sized to .454" work best for those revolvers with .455" throats. The large throated revolvers don't shoot hardball accurately. He also found that hard cast Oregon Trail in .452" shot well. As usual, in gun magazines today, there was no indication of the range of the accuracy tests and one can be assured that they weren't conducted at 50 yds.
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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by USSR on 5/16/2018, 8:00 am

I have another .455" mould coming (c'mon Miha) that is for all intent and purposes a hollowbase wadcutter.   So, it is my intention to test both the #68 and the wadcutter in my 25-2 and 25-5 in my Ransom Rest at 50 yards.   Should be interesting.

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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by kashaV on 5/16/2018, 5:27 pm

In the past, many of these revolvers were customized. A 41 or 44 cal cylinder was acquired and re- chambered properly with 451-2 throats.

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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by bruce martindale on 5/16/2018, 6:33 pm

I met Martin Babe Magnan once when he came to NY. He cast hard and drove them hard. He tested each chamber for groups, and l recall they were large throats. Amazing for a guy to break 2650 with a revolver. I don't recall his profession and I wish he would/could join these boards. Any guys near Leominster who can prod him? There was a Shooting Sports article on him a few years ago with his loads. Anyone find it?

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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by james r chapman on 5/16/2018, 7:47 pm

SSUSA wrote:Magnan insists that discovering the correct centerfire load was the single most important factor in putting him over the accuracy hump. He is an inexhaustible handloader who devoted more than three years to testing countless combinations before finding his successful formula. It consists of W-W 231 powder (5 grains for 50-yard bulls and 3.9 grains at 25 yards) packed in Remington brass with Federal primers, propelling the most crucial element of his discovery, a 0.454-inch diameter bullet.

“When I first got my .45, it would shoot 7-inch groups with factory ammo at 50 yards from a Ransom Rest. I sent it back to the factory for rebarreling and rechambering but it didn’t help much. So I went to work experimenting with handloads,” Magnan said.

“It took a long time and the support of Rene Goguen, owner of the Ashby (Massachusetts) Gun Shop, who encouraged me and supplied the rest. Eventually I went to cast bullets. I tried 13 different molds and had actually given up when a buddy gave me another one to try. It was the Hensley & Gibbs 78 that produces a 0.454-inch bullet.”

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/2/22/revolvers-top-2600-in-hands-of-the-babe/
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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by USSR on 5/16/2018, 8:14 pm

Thanks for that link Jim.   Also, all the talk about Babe using a really hard alloy due to the shallow rifling has inspired me to do so as well.

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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by NuJudge on 5/19/2018, 8:26 am

I have a 25-2 with cylinder throats just under .456", measured by pin gauge.  I bought some unsized Dardas bullets that they size to .454, bought some .455" 250 grain Remington bullets, and got a .456" mold, but I have been busy with loads for 1911s.  I am very interested in more comments on powder charges and bullets that shoot well in these pistols.

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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

Post by Wobbley on 5/19/2018, 8:07 pm

Try Titegroup. 4 to 5 grains.
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Re: Cast or swaged for 25-2(large throats)

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