Model 41 PC Disappointment

After much saving and researching and pestering my friend at the LGS, I finally tracked down a Performance Center 41.

$1,589.99 later, I'm one proud owner.

Install an Ultradot 4, and off to the Ikes I go.


It was very nice for the first hour, but then the problems set in.

Mag button tried to unscrew itself, allowing the magazine to fall out of the gun.

Figured that out and tightened it.

Next day - The safety is so tight, I about need a hammer to disengage it. (Yes, I know, target gun, nobody needs it...)

Drop of oil on the lever and work it a few times.

Fine.

Now, even though it's still tight, it re-engages itself after two or three rounds. The onliest way I can shoot 5 rounds is to lay my thumb on the lever.

And then the stovepipes. The feed ramp looks like a dirt road.

So off it goes back to Smith, free of charge of course.

Now, I'm not a hater, no sir, I have a pile of S&W's, including another Performance Center gun, but this M41 just doesn't seem near up to the standard... and after doing a bit of Googling, it seems that others have experienced nearly the same issues (they all do it).



What's your experience?

Pinetree, regarding the feed ramp, are you using clean, quality ammo or dirty, cheap ammo?  Also, are you using the oil-on-top-round-in-magazine 'trick'?  I used to on my Model 41, but stopped a long time ago because the oil just caused a lot of dirt/debris to build up on the feed ramp and in the chamber.

The knuckle at the base of my thumb flips the safety on every time  if I grip it high and hard. I just got into the habit of checking the safety with my off hand to make sure it's off when the command to load is given.

Virgil

I wasn't aware of the "drop of oil trick", however I do always lubricate a new magazine.

Ammo is fresh Federal 40 gr. Game Shok (copper washed) which runs reliably in all my other pistols.

I didn't want to use up my Green Tag until I had it sighted/broken-in.

Sorry to hear about your disappointment. I'll pass on the internet rumor that S&W used CCI standard velocity ammo to test the 41 and maybe you should try that ammo after it returns. I don't know but I've heard so many of these 41 stories and the magic drop of oil I stay clear of them. If you get it back and still have problems I would recommend sending it to KC Crawford since he believes a 22 should never need oil in the chamber to function, as do I. If you send it to anybody without that attitude you will never have good functioning 41, because they will just tell you to put oil on the top round. I've only seen two perfect functioning 41's, and there was no oil in sight when I shot beside them. Both were USMC team shooters, Lozoya and Bacon.

I've had my M-41 for over 10 years bought new and have only had one FTF EVER from a dud round after thousands of rounds down range.
M-41's can run reliable and that drop of oil is just hogwash.

BTW I only use CCI SV

Virgil

Send it to KC, period.

add another "send it to KC"......

One of the guys here bought a PC Model 41, which turned out to be a piece of junk.  Safety kept engaging on its own and when we took it apart to clean it, it took an act of God to get the barrel back in the channel where it goes.  And S&W could not get the trigger pull below about 5 pounds.
He sent it back twice to S&W and finally sent it to Roddy Toyota, who fixed all the problems.

Thanks, I've never even heard of those two guys. I usually deal with a bulls-eye smith here in PA.

I guess I'll have to wait until it comes back from Smith and see.

The robert84010 wrote:Sorry to hear about your disappointment. I'll pass on the internet rumor that S&W used CCI standard velocity ammo to test the 41 and maybe you should try that ammo after it returns. I don't know but I've heard so many of these 41 stories and the magic drop of oil I stay clear of them. If you get it back and still have problems I would recommend sending it to KC Crawford since he believes a 22 should never need oil in the chamber to function, as do I. If you send it to anybody without that attitude you will never have good functioning 41, because they will just tell you to put oil on the top round. I've only seen two perfect functioning 41's, and there was no oil in sight when I shot beside them. Both were USMC team shooters, Lozoya and Bacon.

The Chief is right on this one. Send it to someone like KC who knows about the 41.

KC is one of the sponsor's of this forum and a link to his website and contact info can be found on the home page.

Wow, that much for a model 41?  For only a little more, you could've gotten a used Pardini.

My used Pardini was less than that. And my used MP95 Benelli, with orthopedic  grip, ultra dot, standard grip, 4 magazines and case was less than 1/2 of it. The Pardini, shot the 10x clean in my Avatar but it is an older model that is a little heavy for me.

The 41 can be a good pistol and there have been many championships won with it. But it's not the pistol for me, these days.

I totally share your grief!
I got my brand new Model 41 PC a few months ago. Took it to the range, using CCI SV ammo, same issues as yours. The slightest nudge of the safety, nor even engaging it, causes the trigger not to reset.
In scouring the internet, I found out to my total disappointment, that's a very common issue with these guns. I didn't even bother sending it back to S&W, because from what I've read they all comeback with the same issues.
I sent the gun to David Sams, who confirmed the fact that all recent Model 41 do this, and he's worked on a whole bunch of them recently. Since this gun is my "step up", or so I thought, from my Ruger MK3(which, by the way, has NEVER misfired, stove piped or jammed in thousands upon thousands of rounds with every ammo I shot through it), I decided to do a full upgrade on it - tightened the bolt, did a trigger job and had the barrel lined with a Walther liner and had the safety reconfigured to the "old style" S&W one piece safety.
The gun became a total tack driver, but added $800 to the already ridiculous price tag. 
If I knew beforehand, I would NEVER buy a Model 41PC again.
Unfortunately, I live  in the "great state of New York", and any gun, including a Pardini and Walther with a magazine forward of the trigger is an "assault weapon " and is illegal.

I was told to stay away from S & W model 41's made after year 2000.  I have 2 of them. 1 I bought new that i think was made around 1998 and has been great. I bought a used one made in 2010 and has been having problems with the safety engaging by itself. It was sent back to Smith & Wesson and came back with same problem. I then sent it to someone else to repair it and now i have to send it back to him for same problem. My advice is to buy an older Model 41 and stay away form newer ones. The S&W company today is not like the S & W  company from the old days.

I have two 41s, both purchased used, under $1,000. Both have excellent triggers and have been perhaps the most reliable of all my 22s. The only thing I don't really like is the open backstrap makes it difficult for me to get grips I like (medium hands, shorter fingers), which I think I have solved with the CMM 1911 conversion grips.

The 41s are perhaps the only guns I have that haven't been to Jon for some kind of work. No idea when mine were made, one seems older, the other is more recent?

I only shoot CCI-SV thru them, don't remember ever having any issue.

older serial number years of manufacture

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=534411

Believe me, if I didn't think the Model 41 was all that, I wouldn't have bought one.

But for a brand new Performance Center gun to have these issues is almost inexcusable.

Also, the last two (brand new) S&W's I've bought this year, didn't come with the little envelope with the used cartridge.

I bought a PC Model 41 about 2 years ago and have had similar frustrations. Stove pipes pretty regularly, some magazines are worse than others, but it's happened with six different mags. Replacing the extractor with a Volquartsen and buying the Wolff spring pack have both helped, but I still get trapped rounds on ejection consistently enough, even with CCI Standard Velocity that I don't want to shoot it in a league or a match. It's even more frustrating because when it runs it's super accurate.

Pinetree wrote:Believe me, if I didn't think the Model 41 was all that, I wouldn't have bought one.

But for a brand new Performance Center gun to have these issues is almost inexcusable.

Also, the last two (brand new) S&W's I've bought this year, didn't come with the little envelope with the used cartridge.

My understanding is it is not a requirement any more to provide a cartridge.  Don

I have a pre "A" series Model 41 with original barrel, custom optic cut additional barrel, 4 mags and target grips on consignment at:

http://www.goshoot.com/

If want a complete description of the gun, just let me know and I'll send a file.

CR

J.Ack wrote:I bought a PC Model 41 about 2 years ago and have had similar frustrations. Stove pipes pretty regularly, some magazines are worse than others, but it's happened with six different mags. Replacing the extractor with a Volquartsen and buying the Wolff spring pack have both helped, but I still get trapped rounds on ejection consistently enough, even with CCI Standard Velocity that I don't want to shoot it in a league or a match. It's even more frustrating because when it runs it's super accurate.

All of mine are of older vintage.  I shot a M46 and M41 in league for three years without a single stove pipe.  What does the slide release/ejector look like (the ejector side) on the new M41's.  Can you post a picture?  S&W tweaked these over the years, I'm curious what the PC is using.

Well I can't post a picture because it hasn't returned from Smith & Wesson yet.

Fwiw...get a chamber brush from Larry's Guns.  Keep that chamber clean. Easy to get gunked up.