Disappointment

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Disappointment

Post by Magload on 8/2/2017, 7:29 pm

I was very disappointed at the indoor range today.  For the month of July I only shot one time and that was to sight in my new Aimpoint 9000SC.  I stayed home and Dry fired all month and did follow through/hold drills.  It was a hard month for me as I normally shoot 4 to 5 times a week.  I was so looking forward to today as the dry firing and holding went well.  I was not shooting good anyway mostly aroung 68s at 20yds on a 20yd SF target.  Dang that bull is small.  Well 5 strings of 10 SF and most in the low 50s only one made a 62.  I put the Nelson away and got the LB out and shot it a lot better but not even close to what I was shooting in June.  Don
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Re: Disappointment

Post by KBarth on 8/2/2017, 7:52 pm

What did your dry fire fire and holding drills consist of?
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Re: Disappointment

Post by Magload on 8/2/2017, 8:22 pm

KBarth wrote:What did your dry fire fire and holding drills consist of?
Dry fire drills started with a 1/2" dot on the wall at 20 feet.  As my dot settled on the that dot I would close my eyes and just feel the trigger squeeze and the break.  No set amount of these just till I have the feel of the trigger.  I then dry fire normally and when the shot brakes try to hold the follow through.  I worked on keeping the trigger moving as I was approaching the spot on the wall and watching what the red dot did when the trigger broke.  For the follow through/hold drill I would do a normal dry fire but follow through for 45 seconds.  I is supposed to be longer then that but i am old and have lost a lot of mussel in the last few years.   Take a two minute break and repeat.  Do this for 8 times.  The 1911 gets petty heavy halfway through.   I am sure I am not doing enough dry fires I get bored to fast when the shot breaks and I am still in my wobble area.  I can't buy this 100 dry fires for each live fire as I shoot 50 rounds of 22 a day and don't have time in my life to dry fire 5,000 times a day.  Don
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Re: Disappointment

Post by KBarth on 8/2/2017, 8:36 pm

Did you do the blank wall dry fire?  I started doing that and my scores have increased greatly.
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Re: Disappointment

Post by Magload on 8/2/2017, 8:56 pm

KBarth wrote:Did you do the blank wall dry fire?  I started doing that and my scores have increased greatly.
I have tried that and on a blank wall I can not tell if the dot is moving at all.  I guess I need to dig out my Scatt or my MantisX.  The blank wall does work with iron sights but I only have a couple of pistols with iron sights and both have terrible triggers.  Two handed I am very accurate that second hand really helps.  Don
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Re: Disappointment

Post by KBarth on 8/2/2017, 9:34 pm

Magload wrote:
KBarth wrote:Did you do the blank wall dry fire?  I started doing that and my scores have increased greatly.
I have tried that and on a blank wall I can not tell if the dot is moving at all.  I guess I need to dig out my Scatt or my MantisX.  The blank wall does work with iron sights but I only have a couple of pistols with iron sights and both have terrible triggers.  Two handed I am very accurate that second hand really helps.  Don
Then it seems like you aren't focusing on your dot, I can tell if my dot does or does not move.
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Re: Disappointment

Post by davekp on 8/3/2017, 5:53 am

I would quit the 45 second "follow through" business. That just tires you out, and makes each subsequent dry fire shot more difficult. Do you hold for 45 seconds during a match? Train for strength after the dry fire session is complete.

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Re: Disappointment

Post by Chris Miceli on 8/3/2017, 6:52 am

davekp wrote:I would quit the 45 second "follow through" business. That just tires you out, and makes each subsequent dry fire shot more difficult. Do you hold for 45 seconds during a match? Train for strength after the dry fire session is complete.
I agree with Dave.

I met a new bullseye shooter at the range a few days ago and we have been working on getting his groups together at 25 yards on sustained target but at a slow fire pace. Progressing rapidly we took it out to 50 yards on the normal target slow fire target. It was a big eye opener for him and me. I don't think their is a substation for shooting at the full distance. We brought the targets back in to 25 for some more shots at a slower pace and some timed/rapid. He was amazed on how little the dot moves on the 25 after just shooting the 50. After putting him back out to 50 yards he instantly had an increase in performance and groups went from keeping them on the target to keeping them all on the repair center, and a few targets all in the black.  Maybe he had more faith in his movement ? I should ask him what and why he thinks it is that way.

Some great shooters here have mentioned shooting the full distance and NMC courses for training.
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Re: Disappointment

Post by mikemyers on 8/7/2017, 11:43 am

This is what Keith Sanderson suggests:

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t4607-keith-sanderson-s-dry-fire-training?highlight=keith

Watching the video make it easier to understand what he says, and why.
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Re: Disappointment

Post by jmdavis on 8/7/2017, 12:12 pm

Keith also says to do the holding and grip exercises for 6 days. There is nothing wrong with holding exercises, but you would be better off to separate the dryfire and the holding as has been suggested. Also, the point should be to make good dryfire shots when they cease to be good, take a break. 10 perfect shots is better than 100 mediocre ones. Don't practice mistakes and don't train your body to do things you don't want with the pistol. 

"8 holding drills a day for five or six days" Every dryfire is not a holding drill 


I got the advice to separate dryfire and holding drills from Zins. In general, I don't think Sanderson would disagree.
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Re: Disappointment

Post by robert84010 on 8/7/2017, 2:08 pm

I am curious when Zins started recommending holding drills? In his clinics, does he put out to hold for certain periods of time?

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Re: Disappointment

Post by Jon Eulette on 8/7/2017, 2:17 pm

Sanderson is the only 'champ' that I know of who recommends holding drills.
Jon
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Re: Disappointment

Post by jmdavis on 8/7/2017, 2:20 pm

Zins recommends not doing holding drills where you just hold. At least that was my takeaway from April 2016. His concern is people holding without firing and being taught to do that. That's a simplification, obviously.
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Re: Disappointment

Post by robert84010 on 8/7/2017, 2:26 pm

jmdavis wrote:

....
I got the advice to separate dryfire and holding drills from Zins. In general, I don't think Sanderson would disagree.
I agree with your last post but the above is confusing that point.  I thought something had changed.

The interesting part to Zins' approach of no holding drills is that for summer shooters at Quantico holding after a shot is part of the program. Maybe that has changed since some of my friends were there 10 years ago. The approach then was like Sanderson describes: dry/live shot and then hold after for a certain period.

Just curious that you had heard something different.
thanks.

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Re: Disappointment

Post by jmdavis on 8/7/2017, 2:51 pm

I've been able to shoot with or be coached by a lot of marines who have held national titles. They all push blank wall dry fire, lots of dry fire, eyes closed dry fire, shot processes, the mental program of some sort, and quality training and practice. 

I have done Keith's holding drills, but I did them separate from my dry fire practice and the grip and holding drills helped. He said 5 or six days and that's what I did. But I had the advantage of also having coaching from civilian 2600+ shooters and some Navy shooters from the time of the Navy MTU in the 60's and early 70's. It's all good.
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Re: Disappointment

Post by robert84010 on 8/7/2017, 3:35 pm

jmdavis wrote:..It's all good.
I agree.

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Re: Disappointment

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