Alibi rules

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Alibi rules

Post by Mightyheb on 8/13/2017, 12:21 pm

I have looked in the NRA rules but the can't find what an allowable alibi is?

Can someone tell me where to go or what they are

Thanks
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Re: Alibi rules

Post by LenV on 8/13/2017, 1:02 pm

Has to be a gun, dot, ammo or range malfunction. Can not be an operator error. Most malfunctions are allowed but if you did something like not gripping the grip safety and the gun didn't fire then that would not be allowed. The common test for OHS is to have the shooter point the pistol in a safe direction and pull the trigger. I have heard a lot of bangs over the years.

Len
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Re: Alibi rules

Post by james r chapman on 8/13/2017, 2:53 pm

And, you don't get as many as you need sometimes.
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Re: Alibi rules

Post by joy2shoot on 8/13/2017, 2:59 pm

james r chapman wrote:And, you don't get as many as you need sometimes.

For example, my understanding is one per match.  So in a given 900, there is the SF match, the NMC match, the TF match and the RF match.  So if you get an alibi in SF and another one in TF, that is ok.  But if you get one in the first string of RF, you are not eligible to get another one in the second string of RF.  Hope that makes sense.

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Re: Alibi rules

Post by carykiteboarder on 8/13/2017, 3:44 pm

For the OP, I am looking at rules dated 2016:  

See sections 9.4, 9.5 and 9.6 for definitions of "defective cartridge", "disabled pistol" and "malfunction".
See section 9.12 for range alibis.
See sections 10.9, 10.10 and 10.11 for "Procedures in case of..."
See section 9.14 for rules regarding "Refiring".

As a note to later posters, for an NMC, one could theoretically be allowed one refire for Slowfire and one for the remainder of the Timed Fire and Rapid Fire strings.  See 9.14 c).  I've never seen it happen in my limited shooting experience.
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Re: Alibi rules

Post by CR10X on 8/13/2017, 3:53 pm

From the rules: 


10.9 Procedure in Case of Defective Cartridge, 

Disabled Pistol in slow fire - If a cartridge fails to fire or a pistol fails to function in slow fire the competitor may replace the unfired cartridge or clear the jam and continue firing. Additional time may be allowed any competitor, equal to the time lost because of the defective cartridge, disabled pistol or malfunction, if the Range Officer has been notified at the time of the malfunction. (For refiring privileges see Rule 9.14). It is not required that the Range Officer attempt to fire a cartridge before it is declared defective. In case of malfunction where a pistol or revolver is disabled and must be replaced requiring a refire, the competitor will call the Range Officer. 

 10.10 Procedure in Case of Defective Cartridge, Disabled Pistol or Malfunction in Timed and Rapid Fire - Note: Rule 10.10(a) is to apply for all Regional and National Championships. Rule 10.10(b) may be used for other tournaments provided tournament program clearly states that Rule 10.10(b) will apply for that tournament. Otherwise 10.10(a) will apply. (a) In the event of a defective cartridge (Rule 9.4), disabled pistol (Rule 9.5), or malfunction (Rule 9.6), before a string is completed in timed or rapid fire, the competitor shall be privileged to fire another five shot string, provided he assumes the “Ready” position and calls the Range Officer by holding up the non-shooting hand at the end of the time period. The Range Officer will inspect the pistol, and may even ask that the pistol be fi red, if satisfied that there is a disabled pistol, defective cartridge, malfunction, or optical sight failure, will determine the number of unfired cartridges remaining in the pistol or bullets that have failed to leave the barrel. If at any time during Timed or Rapid Fire, if a competitor attempts to clear a malfunction with non-shooting hand they will be denied a re-fire. The competitor will then fire another complete five shot string on the same target. The competitor may attempt to complete fi ring per Rule 10.11. 

10.10 (a) In the event of a defective cartridge (Rule 9.4), disabled pistol (Rule 9.5), or malfunction (Rule 9.6), before a string is completed in timed or rapid fi re, the competitor shall be privileged to fi re another five shot string, provided he assumes the “Ready” position and calls the Range Officer by holding up the non-shooting hand at the end of the time period. The Range Officer will inspect the pistol, and may even ask that the pistol be fi red, if satisfied that there is a disabled pistol, defective cartridge, malfunction, or optical sight failure, will determine the number of unfired cartridges remaining in the pistol or bullets that have failed to leave the barrel. If at any time during Timed or Rapid Fire, if a competitor attempts to clear a malfunction with non-shooting hand they will be denied a re-fire. The competitor will then fi re another complete five shot string on the same target. The competitor may attempt to complete firing per Rule 10.11.

9.4 Defective Cartridge - A defective cartridge is one: (a) Which has such evident structural defect as to cause a misfire or to cause a pistol to fail to function (b) Which does not fire (c) From which the bullet has not left the barrel (No claim for a defective cartridge shall be allowed if bullet has left the barrel.) (For procedure in case of a defective cartridge see Rules 9.4, 10.9 and 10.10. For refiring privileges see Rule 9.14.) 

9.5 Disabled Pistol - A disabled pistol is one: (a) That cannot be safely aimed or fired (b) That has suffered damage so it cannot be fired or will not function properly (c) That has suffered the loss of a sight or damage to the sights. The fact that sights are improperly adjusted does not constitute disablement. A pistol once declared disabled by the Range Officer shall not again be used for competitive firing until the defect has been corrected and until the pistol has been ruled as safe by the Chief Range Officer. (For procedure in case of a disabled pistol see Rules 10.9 and 10.10. For refiring privileges see Rule 9.14.) 

9.6 Malfunction - Failure of the pistol to function properly due to mechanical defects or to defective ammunition. Functional failures due to improper manual operation are not to be considered as malfunctions. (For procedure in case of a malfunction see Rules 10.9 and 10.10. For refiring privileges see Rule 9.14.)


Note from Cecil :  There is a misprint in the rules for 10 10 (b).  Starting with "Example - in timed or rapid fire....." at the end of 10.10 (b) should have been inserted as a new paragraph after 10.10 (a) or as a separate paragraph with only one indentation.  That Example is for the refiring when refiring is allowed, not for 10.10 (b) which does not allow a refire string. 

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Re: Alibi rules

Post by Wobbley on 8/14/2017, 8:21 am

I used to use " I didn't shoot well."  Never got a refire tho.

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Re: Alibi rules

Post by weber1b on 8/14/2017, 10:31 am

I would like to add one note as this has happened to me and also happened to another shooter on a line I was on Saturday. It was a surprise to me when it happened to me but now I understand it.

I had a no fire on my first round in a timed or rapid string. The issue was simply the gun did not go into battery. I could have seen that had I checked the gun during the load phase. (I have also seen people load an empty mag). Bottom line, the alibi was disallowed. It is the shooter responsibility to make sure the gun is loaded and ready to fire. In essence, the first round is on the shooter. If there is a click, no bang due to ammo failure to fire, then that is allowed. But if the trigger is pulled, and no bang occurs, and it is the shooters fault, then no alibi is allowed.

I shoot in a "fun" league where scores are not submitted and we have a lot of newer and less experienced shooters, we are a little more forgiving on alibi's of this nature, but I have always seen them disallowed in sanctioned matches.

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Re: Alibi rules

Post by John Dervis on 8/14/2017, 1:12 pm

I was that other shooter Joel is referring to. In my case this happened on the second string of the 22 EIC timed fire. I shoot a nonlockback marvel so when I loaded my magazine into the gun, I forgot to rack the slide. When I raised the gun and pulled the trigger there was no bang. I was able to recognize what had happened so I racked the slide and fired my string. It could have been a costly error but 20 seconds is quite a bit of time to recover if you are conscious of what has happened.

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Re: Alibi rules

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