Well, I did it.

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Well, I did it.

Post by USSR on 9/11/2017, 5:20 pm

I'm a revolver guy.   Live and breath older (50's, 60's, and 70's) Smith & Wessons.   However, I have an old Series 70 Gold Cup that I bought used about 25 years ago.   Recently I got it out and put a few rounds thru it, only to find that the extractor was toast.   So, since I am not the kind of guy to just do halfway measures like simply replace the extractor, I just ordered the following: Kart Xact Fit NM barrel and bushing, EGW Oversize firing pin stop, and a Wilson Combat Fool Proof Extractor.   My local gunsmith says he has worked on Bullseye 1911's before, so I am entrusting the smithing work to him.   Should be interesting.   If anyone has any advice regarding what I should make sure the gunsmith understands, I am all ears.

Don

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by Chris Miceli on 9/11/2017, 7:00 pm

unless he is know in the bullseye community..... i wouldn't risk it when so many bullseye smiths are around. best case everything goes great.... worst case you have to redo all his barrel fitting.  The fact that you are using an xact fit for a gunsmith install is already iffy.
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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by USSR on 9/11/2017, 7:12 pm

Well, ya takes your chances.   The Gold Cup will not be shot in Bullseye competition, it is merely to have the Gold Cup be more accurate than it is now.   If it shoots well and reliably, I'm a happy camper.

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by robert84010 on 9/11/2017, 7:34 pm

I suppose since you are not accuracy obsessed like some here, your setup will be fine but if I felt like I needed to tell my gunsmith something I would probably look for another gunsmith. just my take.

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by USSR on 9/11/2017, 7:43 pm

Hmm, maybe the wrong site to ask a question.   Will move on to a friendlier site.

Don

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by Chris Miceli on 9/11/2017, 7:44 pm

USSR wrote:Well, ya takes your chances.   The Gold Cup will not be shot in Bullseye competition, it is merely to have the Gold Cup be more accurate than it is now.   If it shoots well and reliably, I'm a happy camper.

Don
Just throw a custom made egw  bushing and call it done.


Last edited by Chris Miceli on 9/11/2017, 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by Gary Wells on 9/11/2017, 8:06 pm

USSR wrote:Hmm, maybe the wrong site to ask a question.   Will move on to a friendlier site.

Don
No, I think that you got the site correct.
I think that all of the responses are appropriate.
When I wanted my Hoag longslide re-done, I sent it to Mr. Jon Eulette at the advice of several members.
I'm glad that I listened to them, Jon did an exceptional job.
God Bless and good luck. I did years back what you are about to do, and the job got messed up sp bad I ended up basically scrapping the gun and project.

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by USSR on 9/11/2017, 8:13 pm

Funny you should mention Jon.   He was my first choice, however, there are reasons why I am unable to ship my handgun to him.

Don

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by robert84010 on 9/11/2017, 8:34 pm

You could send a PM to Ed Hall. He lives in upstate NY and should a know reputable 1911 'smith in the area.

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by Gary Wells on 9/11/2017, 9:02 pm

USSR wrote:Funny you should mention Jon.   He was my first choice, however, there are reasons why I am unable to ship my handgun to him.

Don
Sorry to hear, Sir.
I am fortunate that Jon shoots with somebody over a few towns and that person took my gun to Jon.

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by USSR on 9/12/2017, 5:54 am

To tell you the truth, I'm not too worried about letting my local smith handle this.   First, the Kart Xact barrel with bushing is advertised as being able to be installed by the owner in 1 hour (Hah!), so my gunsmith who has worked on 1911's before and has all the tools should easily be able to handle it.   Plus, I've known him for many years and consider him a friend.   So, we shall see.

Don

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by Wobbley on 9/12/2017, 10:42 am

Good gunsmiths are where you find them.  Many cannot specialize on any one type of gun building.  It doesn't mean they can't build an accurate pistol or rifle.

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by USSR on 9/12/2017, 10:57 am

Wobbley wrote:Good gunsmiths are where you find them.  Many cannot specialize on any one type of gun building.  It doesn't mean they can't build an accurate pistol or rifle.

So true.

Don

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by mikemyers on 9/22/2017, 9:31 pm

I was going to mention Jon also, but I see several others have done so.

If it's OK to ask something here, have you shot the gun the way it is now, on a rest, and can you post a photo of that target here, along with the related information, distance, and type of ammo?

When you imply it's not shooting as well as you wish, what kind of ammo are/were you using?

Finally, have you shot someone else's 1911, using the same ammo you now use, and how did those results compare to your gun?


I'm relatively new here, but if I owned a 25 year old Gold Cup, I would never be buying all those parts for it unless the original parts were worn out or damaged, and even then, I'd be asking for advice on what parts to get.  I would also be extremely careful about who was going to work on the gun.  You've got something really nice.  It will probably be worth more if you keep it like it is now, than after all that work is done.


I like your alternate idea more:  ".....simply replace the extractor...."
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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by willnewton on 9/23/2017, 8:40 am

Aww Chris, ease up man, the guy is just asking a question trying to learn, you shouldn't cut his legs out from under him until at least five posts have accrued in the thread.  Smile

USSR, Chris means well and only wants you to shoot the best.  There are a lot of smiths that can do a good job, but we often have stories of guys not getting what they expected from the local "I can put an AR-15 box of parts together" gunsmith.  

As in the post above, I am also inclined to tell you to only have a new extractor fit until you can check the gun further and see if you are capable of outshooting it in stock form.  As simple a part as it seems, if the extractor is not fitted correctly, the gun will have serious reliability issues.

So have your guy fit the extractor, then take the pistol out and send a couple hundred rounds downrange.  If everything is working reliably, then consider having more work done.
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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by Froneck on 9/23/2017, 9:45 am

Wobbley wrote:Good gunsmiths are where you find them.  Many cannot specialize on any one type of gun building.  It doesn't mean they can't build an accurate pistol or rifle.
That's not totally correct. There are quite a few things that require the knowledge of making the 1911 a tack driver for Bullseye. I know a few smiths that do good work but can't get the 1911 up to Bullseye standards. Few of my friends found out the hard way! There is quite a bit more than buying the components and putting them in. Lots of so called drop in components are available to make the 1911 supposedly a tack driver but unless the knowledge and understanding of what is required to make those parts function to Bullseye accuracy and reliability installing them only adds minor improvement and some times lowers it. The same goes for a smith that does not build Bullseye guns. Simply put if you needed an operation who would you rather have do it a GP or a surgeon that specializes in the operation needed? However the OP did mention that he's not interested in a tack driver for Bullseye competition so his friend just might be able to do what he expects from the gun. Those that do require Bullseye quality 1911 should check to see if the smith has the ability to do the work and that is usually a list of satisfied Bullseye shooters that are near the top of the shooting field.

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by mikemyers on 9/23/2017, 10:17 am

Froneck, what would help a lot of people is a suggestion on how to find a good gunsmith.  

I spent forever trying to get a Colt Combat Commander working better, and adding new parts didn't do much.  I could never find anyone who I trusted to do what I wanted, and eventually sent it back to Colt.  This is back when they had a pretty good custom shop, and they did an excellent job - I'm not sure if my LB is that much "better".  On the other hand, it took two years, and from what I read, because of financial problems all these great gunsmiths are no longer there.  Sad.  They did to a fantastic job on my gun.  This probably won't help the OP though, as Colt is having so many difficulties.

My list of gunsmiths to ask if I needed something done now is very short, one name, Jon.  Or, if he was too busy, I would ask him to recommend someone.  Maybe I would post something here, trying to find someone good, but the only name I see being mentioned here is Jon.
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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by desben on 9/23/2017, 10:24 am

I'm not sure who put this list of bullseye gunsmiths together, but there are several good and trusted names on it.

https://goo.gl/bTXNSK
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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by Froneck on 9/23/2017, 10:56 am

Unfortunately I don't know many smiths Mikemeyers. I do all the work on my guns and a few friends. What your going to find is those that do good Bullseye work will be very busy simply because of the quality they add to the gun. I've also found that a good bullseye smith is also a good bullseye shooter or was. Having the knowledge of the sport is an important part in that the smith understands what his work is intended to do. If I were looking for a smith I would pick someone like Jon that is a shooter and knows what the gun needs to be able to do. Might be that some time is needed to get it done but what you will get is worth the wait. Also understand that a good smith will take the time to do it right and not become a production line like LB.

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by mikemyers on 9/23/2017, 1:38 pm

Thanks.    ....and yet another recommendation for Jon !
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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by USSR on 9/23/2017, 2:51 pm

Guys,

The pistol is at my local gunsmith who has worked on Bullseye pistols before and I trust.   There are reasons why I cannot use Jon.   Sure, I could have just replaced the extractor, but the reliability issue I have now is the perfect excuse for me replacing the stock barrel and collet bushing with something tighter, which I have wanted to do for many years.   Being able to turn the collet bushing with my fingers just doesn't appeal to me.   I told my gunsmith to only remove enough from the OD of the Kart bushing so that I need to use the bushing wrench to turn the bushing.   Will let you know how it all plays out.  Thanks.

Don

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by Froneck on 9/23/2017, 3:16 pm

I for one am not saying what smith you should use Don, you stated it's not intended for Bullseye competition but if it is so be it. If your happy and trust the smith you selected then all's good. I'm posting for other eyes so as to help others select a smith. You requested what you should make your smith understand, I'm thinking the smith should already know what is needed to make the gun preform as per your request. I doubt that I would select a smith that I would have to explain what is needed to be done.  Sort of going to a doctor and telling him/her how to cure the problem you went to him/her for.

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by USSR on 9/23/2017, 5:35 pm

Froneck,

When you take a 1911 to a gunsmith, it can be set up in any number of ways.   It could be set up to be a carry gun, it could be set up for IPSC competition, or it could be set up for Bullseye competition.   Since my pistol will not be used for any of the above, my conversation with my gunsmith is simply to ensure that we are both on the same page as to what I expect.   Sorry that you don't understand that.

Don

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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by mikemyers on 9/23/2017, 9:16 pm

USSR wrote:......the reliability issue I have now is the perfect excuse for me replacing the stock barrel and collet bushing with something tighter, which I have wanted to do for many years.   Being able to turn the collet bushing with my fingers just doesn't appeal to me.....

If the reason for the change is just to make the bushing tighter, it sounds like you'll get what you want.  If you want to take the time, it would be interesting to know why you want a tighter bushing, especially if you're not doing this for bullseye shooting, and maybe post a photo of your target from this gun, and also a target from a gun that you are happy with.  

You write that you're a revolver guy.   I'm curious - how many other 1911 guns have you fired?
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Re: Well, I did it.

Post by USSR on 9/24/2017, 6:38 am

I am beginning to believe it was a mistake to start a thread on this site.   While the pistol will not be used for Bullseye competition, it will be shot at bullseyes at the range outside my house.  As Col. Townsend Whelen said "only accurate guns are interesting".   I have some interesting guns.   I have several rifles made up for 1,000 yard shooting, although I no longer do that.   They are interesting guns and I can appreciate them for that.   This is my only autoloader, while I have about a dozen earlier pinned & recessed Smith & Wessons.   Revolvers have soul, and you don't have to be like a chicken pecking at the ground for your empties. Smile   I just bought a Ransom Rest and am in the process of building a concrete shooting bench to mount it on, so once I get everything done I will post targets and give you all the details on the results of the build.   There is life beyond Bullseye competition!

Don

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