Good dry fire , sucky match peformance

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Good dry fire , sucky match peformance

Post by chopper on 10/24/2017, 12:39 pm

I need help, I've been dry fire in basement on blank paper and I think it's going good, really can't detect any dot movement after the first 3-5 shots. I practice in groups of 10 and do this for about 15 minutes so I get about 30 shots of practice with 1 gun, then try to use a revolver doing the same approach. I get about the same results.
  The problem lately is my scores suck, I'm shooting in a Monday night indoor "300" league to get ready for winter NRA indoor. I cannot keep my heart and chest relaxed and concentration is difficult, I only drink 2 cups of coffee per day and that is at breakfast, have any of you experienced this type of behaviour, what helped you overcome it. Seems like 3 weeks ago I was going to break from marksman scores to a solid sharpshooter
  I think my fundementals are pretty good, I wonder if I keep practicing what I'm doing is correct and I'm practicing bad habits. I'd travel 500 miles to find a great shooter to analyze and coach me or a clinic, if there's one out there, you can message me. Please give date, place, and $$. I know some shooters that have been to clinics (Zins-Moody)
and said it's helped them a lot. Are there just clinics at Perry one could go to ?
  1.   I,m going to step up my dry fire sessions to 2 times per day.
  2.   Go for walks 3 times per week.
  3.   Need help with relaxing at matches ?
  4.   Need coaching or clinic ?
Stan

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Re: Good dry fire , sucky match peformance

Post by Jack H on 10/24/2017, 12:50 pm

When your dry fire is all on a blank wall or paper, you miss the training to hold in an aiming area related to the bull.  If you are like me at 68, your shoulder wants to move all over the place.   

Do dry fire on a blank, also some on a horizontal line, vertical line, and both lines.
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Re: Good dry fire , sucky match peformance

Post by jmdavis on 10/24/2017, 1:09 pm

Get the line commands and use them to do one shot drills with dry fire. Get used to listening to the commands. I found that my pulse increased when the commands started so I did exactly what I am suggesting. I also started listening to the commands as I visualized before going to sleep. 

You do want to be careful and not get to the point that you are actually too relaxed. A certain level of arousal (as opposed to anxiety) is a good thing. 

Also, to shoot clean, your first shot has to be a 10. That is the purpose of one shot drills whether on a blank target in dry fire or on a real target in live fire.
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Re: Good dry fire , sucky match peformance

Post by Magload on 10/24/2017, 2:49 pm

Stan I am with you on this one.  My dry fires seam great my live fire not so great.  I also can not see movement with a red dot on a blank wall.  I need something there to see if the dot moves.  I think just shooting a lot of matches to get use to everything will help.  I know the few I have shot I worry about doing something wrong.  I worry more about procedures then my score.  Don
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Re: Good dry fire , sucky match peformance

Post by Tim:H11 on 10/24/2017, 2:51 pm

Don’t rush your timed fire targets. 20 seconds is a ton of time. That’s what helped me some. I slowed down and made those shots and those targets count. Rapid fire was the same. I was blazing away at those targets and snatching shots and shooting 7’s and 8’s. Now it’s mostly 9’s an 10’s and an occasional 8 but I know the 8’s when they happen. They are obvious mistakes to recognize. Slow down and make the shots count. Jon says keep the trigger moving and he’s right. Don’t snatch shots. Same goes for slow fire. Kind of a “let it happen” thing. Don’t force it.
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Re: Good dry fire , sucky match peformance

Post by davekp on 10/25/2017, 6:38 am

Be sure to completely follow your shot process for each dry fire shot. Visualize that process before each dry fire shot, then execute it.

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Re: Good dry fire , sucky match peformance

Post by rreid on 10/25/2017, 8:36 pm

davekp wrote:Be sure to completely follow your shot process for each dry fire shot. Visualize that process before each dry fire shot, then execute it.
This is good advice. If you're not following your shot process when dry firing, you're not training your subconscious to execute what you want in a match. Lanny Bassham's book, "With Winning in Mind" has a good explanation of the relationship between the conscious, subconscious, and self-image.
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Re: Good dry fire , sucky match peformance

Post by chopper on 10/25/2017, 11:58 pm

I appreciate all the suggestions and help you all wrote about. I think I need to revise my shot plan again.
 I noticed when I tried the vertical and horizontal lines I was moving the dot, it really showed up better than on a blank piece of paper. On the 1911 it's more a problem with the vertical line usually left of line but sometimes right. with the revolver usully below the horizontal line.
  I never tried listening to the commands before going to sleep, I do yawn once in a while when doing my breathing before my shot, also like the idea of one shot drill when dry firing. There was a time this past summer when I shot a few timed and rapids all in the black, only to mess up the next stage, but that was lack of experience, my 1st summer of 2700s. Man those felt so good, kinda like everything was slow motion and I had time to think out every process in the string. It felt so good, just the target in my face and my finger pulling the trigger.
  The more I read and re-read this advice the more it's making sense, following my shot process and visualizing it before every dry fire shot would engrave it in my brain. 
  Ralph, I did get that Lanny Bassham book a few weeks ago, but could only get through the 1st chapter. My mind has been so occupied with my wifes recovery after back surgery 3 months ago, I couldn't concentrate on reading it. I think I'll try reading it again next week when she goes back to work and I have the house to myself and Otis. 
  It might be a little physical shape too, I had to go to the doc today for a A1c check. Discovered my blood pressure was higher than it's normally been, A1c was higher, and my cholesterol was high also. The doc also told me to dump some weight before he sees me in January. 
  Thank you all, Stan

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Re: Good dry fire , sucky match peformance

Post by tceva on 10/26/2017, 4:21 am

I have read through this topic a couple of times.  This one really hits home.  Duplication of the process seems to be what it is all about.  Halfway or so through a dry fire session my process suffers as well as concentration.  Gotta get off of the total number of trigger pulls.  How do you determine the length of a dry fire session?  When things start to go bad?
Alex
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Re: Good dry fire , sucky match peformance

Post by dronning on 10/26/2017, 8:06 am

tceva wrote:I have read through this topic a couple of times.  This one really hits home.  Duplication of the process seems to be what it is all about.  Halfway or so through a dry fire session my process suffers as well as concentration.  Gotta get off of the total number of trigger pulls.  How do you determine the length of a dry fire session?  When things start to go bad?
Alex
Sorry for the long answer.

Dry firing you are actually doing two exercises 1) physical & 2) mental.
On the physical side 1st you are perfecting technique (grip, trigger, sight alignment, hold...) then developing muscle memory & stamina.
On the mental side same thing, 1st perfecting shot process, then extending concentration time & reps so your subconscious takes over.

Most people will find the physical part is easier, and since this sport is about 95% mental it is where you need to focus the most attention.  This is why the shot process is so important.  It's repetition takes most of the things you have to do and automates them (hands them off to your subconscious) but if you don't repeat it perfectly your subconscious won't know what to do.  
 
When to stop: 
When either your concentration or physical efforts starts to slide it's time to stop or take a short break.  Don't do bad reps, if you continue doing bad reps you will harm your results!  If your concentration is still there and you are staying on your shot process but you start to experience physical decay of your hold then I'd say to push a few more reps then quit, just like lifting.

Concentration is tiring and when you start you may only last a few minutes even though you could physically continue.  If that is the case take a break and try again in a few minutes.  The more you exercise this the longer you can do it without losing concentration or becoming physically tired.  Set a timer on your next session BUT turn it away so it doesn't distract you, note the time.  With more sessions the increase in repetitions or time should come naturally.  REMEMBER continue good reps only and stay focused on the process.
- Dave


Last edited by dronning on 10/26/2017, 8:37 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : clarity)
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Re: Good dry fire , sucky match peformance

Post by fpk on 10/26/2017, 12:29 pm

As someone that is struggling through this problem right now, I can say for sure that I didn't have the appreciation of what I was training with my initial efforts at dry fire. It all just seems to go so well, but then doesn't show up on the target.  The reality was that I just didn't know how to tell what "well" was in any of the time I spent.

What it has taken for dry fire to become effective is to have a single fundamental that I am focused on while dry firing.  For me, at this moment, it is sight alignment and the associated grip/locked wrist with my 1911.  You need to get to the point where you are self diagnosing the fundamental that is going awry and then training on it with purpose.

Now that I have reached this point, I really feel like I am starting completely over, but that is good because I now *know* that I am making progress.

--
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Re: Good dry fire , sucky match peformance

Post by Jon Math on 10/26/2017, 1:58 pm

jmdavis wrote:

Also, to shoot clean, your first shot has to be a 10.

True but I’m not sure how good knowing that is Very Happy 
I had even stopped scoping every round for a while because missing with the first round and thinking about that statement was adding so much extra pressure that my follow up shot might be a 5 --because even though the perfect score was gone and I was still replaying it over and over in my head; instead of recovering my composure and drilling nine X’s on the next nine shots.
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