Using M style expander for cast lead?

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Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by Gary Wells on 11/8/2017, 11:05 am

Will using the "M" style expander die have any detrimental effects when loading cast lead bullets?

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by USSR on 11/8/2017, 11:29 am

Nope, nothing but good effects.   Use them and the similar RCBS expanders exclusively.

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by Gary Wells on 11/8/2017, 11:51 am

My reason for asking is that someone on this forum advised that Dardas had a note on his website that an expander should not be used on his bullets. I looked on his site but was unable to find any such statement/warning. I accidentally left the expander die in last time when switching from swaged to cast lead bullets but did not notice any ill effects. Many thanks for the info.

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by james r chapman on 11/8/2017, 1:04 pm

Quote"

Thou Shalt Not Flare Case Mouths For Cast Bullets! You MUST use the correct technique for preparing the case mouths to receive cast bullets without damaging them. And that is with the use of the Lyman 2 Step M Expander Die. This die imparts a 2 step I.D. into the case mouth. It creates a slip fit nest for the bullet to slide into. Thus preventing and eliminating the tipping of the bullet and the premature closure of the case mouth onto the bullet during the seating operation. Lyman 4 die sets are the only dies manufactured that will reload cast bullets and jacketed bullets interchangeably and correctly. And this is due to the 2 Step M die that is incorporated into their 4 die sets. There are other die manufacturers that have emulated the Lyman M Die. It is also imperative that you understan
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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by desben on 11/8/2017, 3:33 pm

I wouldn't worry much about it... I believe all brands of dies can load good, safe and accurate ammo. How carefully you prepare and setup everything is probably more important. Whenever I read that X absolutely can't or must be used, I take that with a grain of salt. Some swear by the Lee FCD, others say it's garbage. Some say you must use Lyman M, yet others win matches with Dillon.
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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by Gary Wells on 11/8/2017, 3:55 pm

I personally think that James R. Chapman might have something at least worth looking into.
However many thanks for your info als.o


Last edited by Gary Wells on 11/8/2017, 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by james r chapman on 11/8/2017, 3:58 pm

I seem to remember Jerry K was an advocate of having a slip fit for approximately half the bearing length then allowing the normal resized case diameter grip the base of the bullet. Then crimping to not distort the bullet.
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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by james r chapman on 11/8/2017, 4:00 pm

Gary, that was a quote from Dardas webpages.
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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by Gary Wells on 11/8/2017, 4:08 pm

I looked for that statement yesterday but evidently did not look in the right place. Many thanks, James. However quite a few shooters here use the Redding seater die also.
Is the Lyman seater die available by itself or must I  buy the 4 die set.

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by Multiracer on 11/8/2017, 4:40 pm

james r chapman wrote:I seem to remember Jerry K was an advocate of having a slip fit for approximately half the bearing length then allowing the normal resized case diameter grip the base of the bullet. Then crimping to not distort the bullet.
This is good advice. Follow it.

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by joy2shoot on 11/8/2017, 4:45 pm

The Lyman M is available separately.  On Midway USA, search for Lyman Neck Expander M Die.  In fact, they appear to be on sale at Midway.
 
Between the Lyman and Redding 2-step expander dies, I much prefer the Lyman over the Redding.  Also, I use the Lyman M series for cast lead, swaged lead, polymer coated and jacketed bullets.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcc91NArteQ

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by Gary Wells on 11/8/2017, 4:57 pm

Does the Lyman M 2 step seater die have a floating sleeve like the Redding or does the use of the Lyman 2 step negate the need for a sleeve?

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by USSR on 11/8/2017, 5:53 pm

Gary Wells wrote:Does the Lyman M 2 step seater die have a floating sleeve like the Redding or does the use of the Lyman 2 step negate the need for a sleeve?

Gary,

The Lyman Type M is not a seater die, it's an expander die.   BTW, the newer RCBS expander dies pretty much duplicate it.

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by ruger15151 on 11/8/2017, 6:15 pm

Noe Bullet Molds also make Type M expander plugs that work with the Lee Expander Body. Unlike the Lyman Type M expanders that are "one-size-fits-all" for each caliber, NOE makes several expanders in incremental sizes for each caliber depending on the size of your bullet.

Here is a link:

www.noebulletmolds.com

Todd

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by Gary Wells on 11/8/2017, 8:17 pm

Many thanks for all of the info, gentlemen, I ordered the Lyman M 2 step
expander die today. $22.00 or so to my door. Should have it 11-20. Looking forward to giving it a try.

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by USSR on 11/9/2017, 7:03 am

You will like it, Gary.   Money well spent.

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by Gary Wells on 11/9/2017, 8:54 am

Many thanks to all of you guys for your expertise. For me, reloading seems to be an incurable disease and as I an oldster and do not get to shoot as much as I used too, I seem to enjoy reloading as much as shooting. Unfortunately I am much better at reloading than I am at shooting.

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by joy2shoot on 11/9/2017, 9:22 am

Gary,
 
I own several Lyman M dies and ran into one small issue on one of them that you may or may not run into.  If you remove the stem from the die body, you will see that it consists of two parts.  The Expander Stem and the Expander itself.  It is the Expander that expands and flares the case.  The Expander is actually screwed onto the Expander Stem.  On one of my dies, as I used it, the Expander ever so slightly unscrewed from the stem.  This will cause the expansion to go deeper into the case and the flare to become wider than you want.  To fix this, I unscrewed the Expander from its stem and placed a very small amount of blue Loctite on just a couple of the threads of the Expander and screwed it back in (let it dry overnight).  The key words here are 'very small amount' and 'blue Loctite' and 'just a couple of the threads'.
 
Also, not very often, you will want to remove the stem from the die body and clean off any reside from the Expander.  You will not need to do this often.  It is just part of keeping your dies clear of dirt, debris and build up.  You will, of course, have to adjust it again when you put the stem back, but I do not find that time consuming.

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by Chris Miceli on 11/9/2017, 9:34 am

I have a custom sized expander for my dillon. It is inspired off Jerrys facebook post about loading accurate lead ammo. Read through those posts of his and a lot can be learned.
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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by Aprilian on 11/9/2017, 9:39 am

Mine too came loose and I loctited it in place.   If you polish the expander section and use case lube, you don't have to clean it as often.

I now use a Noe expander as I found the M die did not expand the case sufficiently and the case then sized the bullet in the seating operation.
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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by Gary Wells on 11/9/2017, 9:24 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:I have a custom sized expander for my dillon. It is inspired off Jerrys facebook post about loading accurate lead ammo. Read through those posts of his and a lot can be learned.
Chris: Do you have an addy for that section of his posts. I looked through his posts but couldn't find anything.

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by Guest on 11/10/2017, 5:42 am

Redding expander dies are M-style too. The Lyman patent must have expired a number of years ago.

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by joy2shoot on 11/10/2017, 6:06 am

beatendeadhorse wrote:Redding expander dies are M-style too. The Lyman patent must have expired a number of years ago.

Redding does, but after trying both the Redding and Lyman, I prefer the Lyman over the Redding.

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by TomH_pa on 11/10/2017, 8:06 am

Gary Wells wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:I have a custom sized expander for my dillon. It is inspired off Jerrys facebook post about loading accurate lead ammo. Read through those posts of his and a lot can be learned.
Chris: Do you have an addy for that section of his posts. I looked through his posts but couldn't find anything.

It's on the Bullseye facebook page

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Re: Using M style expander for cast lead?

Post by Aprilian on 11/10/2017, 9:00 am

joy2shoot wrote:
beatendeadhorse wrote:Redding expander dies are M-style too. The Lyman patent must have expired a number of years ago.

Redding does, but after trying both the Redding and Lyman, I prefer the Lyman over the Redding.
I measured both and the Redding diameter is slightly smaller than the Lyman, perhaps that is why the Lyman worked better for you?
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