Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

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Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by usmilret on 11/12/2017, 2:47 am

Primarily I shoot left handed; However I am ambidextrous and will shoot right handed. It doesn't feel as natural but that is subjective. Even my scores are better when I shoot with my right hand. This got me to thinking. I shoot a 22LR Ruger MK IV with a Ultradot and a Kimber Classic Gold Match with Iron sights. Because these are two different triggers I can dry fire shoot the Ruger with my left hand and dry fire shoot the Kimber with my right hand. This makes perfect sense to me. 

1. Is this permissible during a 2700 three gun match?
2. Can this be viewed as an unfair advantage in competition?

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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by mpolans on 11/12/2017, 5:16 am

if As long as you’re not using both at the same time, I can’t think of a rule that would prohibit it.

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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by james r chapman on 11/12/2017, 7:57 am

I believe you have to use the same firearm to complete each match.
Grip wouldn't matter.
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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by usmilret on 11/12/2017, 2:07 pm

Thank you and please keep the comments coming. Your knowledge is deeply appreciated.

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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by Jack H on 11/12/2017, 2:28 pm

Actually I am not sure what you are asking
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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by dronning on 11/12/2017, 3:16 pm

You can switch hands but not firearms during a single match.  
I interpret the rules as you can change guns after any single match but not in the middle of the single match (SF, NMC, TF, RF) unless the gun becomes inoperable, then you can use a replacement.  So even with no malfunctions you can use up to 4 guns. - see rules below.

As far as switching hands as long as you are being safe I see no reason you couldn't switch anytime you wanted to.  
- Dave

9. COMPETITION REGULATIONS 
9.1 Changing Pistols - Competitors are to use the same pistol during single stage matches, i.e., Slow Fire, Timed Fire, Rapid Fire and NMC (a single match). If a pistol becomes disabled at any time and is designated as such by the Chief Range Officer, all shots fired up to the time the claim is made will stand as part of the official score. Any disabled claim must be made immediately. The exchange of barrels, detachable weights etc. shall not be restricted. (For timed and rapid fire see rules 9.5, 10.9, and 10.10.)
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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by usmilret on 11/12/2017, 4:42 pm

Thank you
As you can tell I haven't competed in a 2700 match but I will. One of the reasons why I asked this question of either shooting left handed or right is the perception of unfairness to other competitors. 
I compete in a local weekly match that is not sanctioned by the National Rifle Association. 
 I have always been a bit above average and didn't get serious until last spring. Working on the fundamentals I knew that the results would come in time. I hope to start shooting in the 2700 matches by spring time.

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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by C.Perkins on 11/12/2017, 5:38 pm

usmilret wrote:Thank you
One of the reasons why I asked this question of either shooting left handed or right is the perception of unfairness to other competitors.
I do not believe there would be any perception of unfairness but that is my opinion.
You could shoot one string left handed and shoot the next string right handed.
That is up to you.
Heck, I would probably not notice cause I am focused on my game not yours.

Clarence
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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by james r chapman on 11/12/2017, 5:47 pm

I'd suggest different hands for different yardages. Swap the box left and right.
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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by LenV on 11/12/2017, 6:59 pm

Actually there is some small concern. If you go to a match and earned your classification shooting left handed (poor hand) and then decided to shoot right handed for the match you could be required to shoot as a Un-classified Master. If you always mix it up I don't have any idea what that would do to your classification. I know several shooters that have classifications for either hand. In comparison Golfers can use either hand but Bowlers can only use the hand they have an average for unless they are bowling scratch and then can use both. Just shoot high Master and no one will give you any grief. Shocked
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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by cdrt on 11/12/2017, 7:09 pm

LenV wrote:Actually there is some small concern. If you go to a match and earned your classification shooting left handed (poor hand) and then decided to shoot right handed for the match you could be required to shoot as a Un-classified Master. If you always mix it up I don't have any idea what that would do to your classification. I know several shooters that have classifications for either hand. In comparison Golfers can use either hand but Bowlers can only use the hand they have an average for unless they are bowling scratch and then can use both. Just shoot high Master and no one will give you any grief. Shocked
Where is that in the rule book?
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Post by LenV on 11/12/2017, 8:16 pm

19.11 probably comes the closest but I like the California Police Assc. interpretation the best. I believe I said it "could" be a problem. And some concern.

Refer to Sec. 18 of NRA Police Pistol Combat Rules.
Special Restrictions: Change reference from NRA to CPPA when applicable.
 
It shall be the responsibility of each competitor to shoot to the absolute best of their ability each and every time they compete in an Association Match.
 
The reprehensible practice of sandbagging, deliberately firing a score below the capabilities of the shooter, shall not be tolerated, and, upon proof of this deceitful conduct, the shooter shall be permanently expelled from this Association.
 
Cheating, in any form, will be subject to sanctions, up to and including expulsion from the California Police Pistol Association.
 
Members removed from active duty, whether temporary or permanent, shall notify a board member and are ineligible to compete in CPPA matches until reinstated to active duty.
 
Any member expelled from the CPPA for a violation of rules shall not have any portion of dues or fees returned.
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Post by cdrt on 11/12/2017, 9:42 pm

19.11 discusses protests, which really does not address the OP's question, but a possible response by other competitors.  My own opinion is, he should pick one hand to shoot with and stick with it.  There is no reason to complicate things, especially the headaches we give to match directors.
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Post by john bickar on 11/12/2017, 10:40 pm

LenV wrote:Just shoot high Master and no one will give you any grief. Shocked

19.8 says no; gotta earn the HM to shoot with the HM.
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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by LenV on 11/12/2017, 11:06 pm

john bickar wrote:
LenV wrote:Just shoot high Master and no one will give you any grief. Shocked

19.8 says no; gotta earn the HM to shoot with the HM.
 I should have said shoot high master scores. Something I have been trying to do for years. In a strange aside and totally ignoring 19.8 I took first place High Master last year at the Oregon State Championships. Guess what happens when there are not enough Masters to have our own bracket? Yep. Bumped up. Good thing there were enough Experts to have their own bracket. Would have got 5th or 6th if I was competing with those youngsters. Very Happy
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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by dronning on 11/12/2017, 11:33 pm

I commented earlier, but after LenV post I will agree if you shoot with your poor hand to get a classification then shoot with your strong hand to try and win your class at let's say, the State Championships, then that is sand bagging / poor sportsmanship and cause for disqualification.

- Dave
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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by Jack H on 11/13/2017, 2:48 am

I still do not understand your line here

"dry fire shoot the Ruger with my left hand and dry fire shoot the Kimber with my right hand"
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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by usmilret on 11/13/2017, 2:52 am

dronning wrote:I commented earlier, but after LenV post I will agree if you shoot with your poor hand to get a classification then shoot with your strong hand to try and win your class at let's say, the State Championships, then that is sand bagging / poor sportsmanship and cause for disqualification.

- Dave
Understood.

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Post by Ed Hall on 11/13/2017, 10:21 am

So, let me get this right: since I'm a High Master, I can use either hand.  That's good, because when I was having some shoulder issues, I would shoot some of the match left handed if my right shoulder bothered too much.  I think with our aging group, my situation is more prevalent than sandbagging as a reason to swap, but what do I know?

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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by Jack H on 11/13/2017, 10:43 am

I think someone would have found a rule quote on changing hands by now if there is one.  I do not recall such a rule.  Switching guns is well covered in rule.  I think you could switch hands every other shot in SF.  Or each string sustained.  Or if you shoot Sf better on one side and sustained on the other, fine.  Or if your shoulder fatigues, switch sides.
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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by mikemyers on 11/14/2017, 11:48 am

Not so hypothetical a question - suppose you shoot better with your right hand, but for medical reasons, it hurts.  Are you guys saying you couldn't use your left hand for most of the shooting, and conserve how often you want to shoot with your (better, but painful) right hand?
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Re: Shooting left handed and right, ambidextrous and legality.

Post by dronning on 11/14/2017, 12:35 pm

mikemyers wrote:Not so hypothetical a question - suppose you shoot better with your right hand, but for medical reasons, it hurts.  Are you guys saying you couldn't use your left hand for most of the shooting, and conserve how often you want to shoot with your (better, but painful) right hand?
Not an issue, it's done all the time.  Where there would be an issue is if you got your classification using your worst shooting hand, when there were no injuries to either, then used your better hand to win a match.  That would be considered sandbagging.

If you are a new shooter with and injury and switching hands, I don't think anyone would mind because you're considered "Unclassified" and have to compete in the Master class.  If you are an unclassified shooter, switching hands due to an injury and win the Master class then I'd have to say congratulations.

The bullseye community is pretty small and people would usually know if you are try to game the system.  Most of the time your buddies on the line will know your going to have to switch hands due to an injury before you decide to.
- Dave
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Post by DeweyHales on 11/15/2017, 1:22 pm

I’ve shot with either hand and switched hands mid string at various matches. No one has ever said anything. There is no rule I know about switching hands.
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