The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

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The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by Jon Eulette on 11/13/2017, 12:04 am

I was looking at the Topic in Equipment regarding Pistol Box Design. Then I realized that to my recollection, no one has addressed the 6th fundamental....the Pistol Box!
We have stance, breathing, grip, sight alignment/picture and TRIGGER CONTROL. We've been neglecting teaching the proper use of the pistol box. It is a tool and in most cases improperly used. How we stand and scope should be as important as how we apply the other fundamentals. I watch too many shooters move their feet to scope shots or layout their equipment in a scattered manner with no after thought as to how things are placed.
So I thought I'd throw this out for comments Wink
I truly believe it can aid our shooting or be a distraction.
Jon
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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by Chris Miceli on 11/13/2017, 5:35 am

my box pretty much throws up all its stuff on the bench, but i don't have to move my body to get to anything.  As a lefty shooter i keep the box on my left side, just a slight twist and i can look through the scope. I use a 45 degree eye piece.
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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by Tim:H11 on 11/13/2017, 10:39 am

I just kind of thought it was common sense to set up everything where it is convenient to reach an in a timely manner if need be. Also in a manner that did not require moving around drasticly or breaking stance/feet position. 

If there are shooters that don’t think of this or don’t plan for this then absolutely this could be something worth looking in to. However probably not the most crisitcal in terms of fundamentals. Though I do see it’s worth in mentioning it for those new to the sport.

The box holds your guns in transit yes, but it could hold the things you find yourself in need of immediately during the match. Having those things laid out on the table where they can be reached quickly but at the same time not in the way of anything or your shooting/loading is important. A bullseye match can move right along so it’s inportant to be prepared in many ways. Not just having the tools but the manner in which you access them too. 

The spotting scope as well - there are people that prefer straight eye pieces and angled eye pieces and which one you chose may be because of how yo stand at the table and near your box. 

There is much to think about in how your equipment is organized, and accessed during the match and in what equipment you choose to fit your needs. 

An endless topic perhaps.
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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by dronning on 11/13/2017, 10:59 am

The 1st rule of the pistol box:
No matter what's inside is: A place for everything and everything in it's place.

Nothing worse than waiting on someone that knows he has "it" in there somewhere.  The "it" could be batteries, snake, oil, or the wrench to tighten your conversion guide rod...etc...  Having to look for "it" puts undue stress on you and sucks for everyone else.
- Dave
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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by mspingeld on 11/13/2017, 1:30 pm

I carry a box and a bag. Nothing is in the box that I won't likely need. I use velcro in the interior sides of the box to hold oil, Aimpoint adjusting tool, etc. Any secondary items are in the bag, there if I need them but out of the way.

Also, my scope is angled and the eyepiece swivels. I set it up low, and angled upward (weather permitting). That way it's minimal movement for me to check my call.

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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by joy2shoot on 11/13/2017, 3:14 pm

As mentioned in a previous post, I think storing pistols in a pistol box is a waste of valuable space.


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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by robert84010 on 11/13/2017, 3:43 pm

yep..


Last edited by robert84010 on 11/13/2017, 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by Jon Eulette on 11/13/2017, 4:29 pm

Ok maybe I wasn't clear. I witness all too often new shooters who do not know how to stand relative to the pistol box so that they don't move their feet between shots to scope. Or scope is not setup correctly to view without changing feet position to scope shots. Or not crowding the box for wind protection. Also not setting up equipment/ammo on the shooting bench in a routine manner when shooting.

So ultimately we older shooters need to teach the pistol box use and setup as if it were another fundamental. Just having a gun box and scope and not being taught how to use it is like just shooting and never dry firing. Our shot process should include our gun box position as well as ours. Remember we are all trying to replicate a perfectly executed shot everytime we lift the gun. But not knowing how to setup and use our gun box can detrimentally change our fundamentals. So I was just throwing something out for thought?

I think it's just as important as the other fundamentals Smile
Hope this makes sense.


Jon 
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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by CR10X on 11/13/2017, 4:43 pm

Jon's point is important.  Once you have the best position, especially your feet, you should not move unless you really have to. (For scoping, finding screwdriver, reloading, etc. until the string if finished.)  He's using the gun box as a fundamental to help reinforce that.  

Get everything done so you don't have to waste any time moving, or fidgeting, or re-gripping, or shifting position once you raise the gun for firing.  It just eats up time and disrupts the flow.  When you've got everything right, then you can start the gun from the bench and just shoot the shot. 

CR.

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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by lcambre on 11/14/2017, 4:35 am

The thing I have noticed with shooters boxes with straight scopes is that the person is always leaning way over to look in the scope.

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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by JKR on 11/14/2017, 7:46 am

Jon I know what you're saying. As a rifle shooter I learned to set up my scope so close that I could shift my eyes from the sight to the scope with absolutely no change in my prone position. This also enabled me to check wind and shoot as quickly as my puller could pull my target. I remember seeing new and inexperienced shooters belly crawl over to their scope after every shot. By the same token I've seen pistol shooters walk over to their box after every shot.

Jim

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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by Dr.Don on 11/14/2017, 8:45 am

Jon mentioned something I don't think was picked up on.  Unless you are really tall, or the bench is very short, snuggling up close to the box on a windy day can help you fight the wind.
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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by Jon Eulette on 11/14/2017, 9:26 am

Dr.Don wrote:Jon mentioned something I don't think was picked up on.  Unless you are really tall, or the bench is very short, snuggling up close to the box on a windy day can help you fight the wind.

Snuggling the gun box takes PRACTICE. It can be a distraction until you get comfortable doing it. Recoiling pistol close to the lid/scope can be controlled crash Wink
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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 11/14/2017, 9:49 am

It seems to me that the shooting table can become more of a shooting slot between the gun box & brass catcher.
If you're not organized in your set up hilarity & panic can erupt.
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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by mikemyers on 11/14/2017, 11:37 am

Jon Eulette wrote:
.....so that they don't move their feet between shots to scope. ....
Jon, before I read this, I just naturally assumed people would move to the side to look through the scope, then move back to shoot.  I would have been doing that if I already had a box and scope, (which I don't).  I'm doing things wrong anyway, by putting the gun down, maybe moving (don't remember) and using my binoculars).  I'm also making yet another mistake by not shooting directly behind my bench - there is an open area alongside it, and without much thought, I just move there to shoot.    ....thanks for posting this!

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect I would keep everything in the box in its proper place, take them out as needed, and then replace them.  I like having an un-cluttered work bench, but without a box I don't seem to have much of a choice.  The shooting bag I got for going to/from the range is very good, but not very convenient.  I know my tools are all in there - somewhere.  

Is a "brass catcher" a must-have, or just something a few people use so they don't lose their brass?
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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 11/14/2017, 11:53 am

An advantage of being cross dominant is that I don't have to do much more than lean over to see thru my spotting scope.
I may not be a good shot but my box & work area are well organized so there isn't any rummaging around.
My brass catcher is for my benefit at practice (the ground seems to be getting farther away & I practice on a gravel range) and more of a good neighbor thing at matches.
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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by mikemyers on 11/14/2017, 11:56 am

STEVE SAMELAK wrote:......(the ground seems to be getting farther away ....) .....
Steve, my problem is that the ground seems to be getting lower every year!   :-)
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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by Jon Eulette on 11/14/2017, 12:09 pm

mikemyers wrote:
Jon Eulette wrote:
.....so that they don't move their feet between shots to scope. ....
Jon, before I read this, I just naturally assumed people would move to the side to look through the scope, then move back to shoot.  I would have been doing that if I already had a box and scope, (which I don't).  I'm doing things wrong anyway, by putting the gun down, maybe moving (don't remember) and using my binoculars).  I'm also making yet another mistake by not shooting directly behind my bench - there is an open area alongside it, and without much thought, I just move there to shoot.    ....thanks for posting this!

Mike, you were my motivation for starting this topic. I read your words in the pistol box design topic and started this one. Basically precision pistol shooting is like trying to be a robot. Replicating each movement exactly the same way. It's about being consistent!
Jon
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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by mikemyers on 11/14/2017, 10:14 pm

So many things I thought "knew", but not really.  I try to hold the gun exactly the same way each time, but I never thought about a lot of other things.  Thanks!
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Re: The Fundamentals of the Pistol Box!

Post by james r chapman on 11/15/2017, 5:02 am

I learned a few tricks by watching shooters on previous relays.
I watched Judy Tant sight line her box to the target so it was on target when she opened it.
I learned first hand you open the box BEFORE you affix your shell catcher.
Ways to affix the box and shell catcher to the bench, TF is not a good time to use your off hand to hold them in a wind gust.
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