Upgrade Colt or RO

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Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by SteveBrown on 12/4/2017, 5:01 pm

I have a Colt Gold Cup National Match .45 and I could use a backup for my Bullseye gun. My question is... Would you have it upgraded or sell the Colt and buy a Springfield RO that has already been upgraded to a Bullseye gun? Could I sell the Colt for enough to cover the full cost of a RO Bullseye gun? How much would the Colt sell for (the serial number is 302** if that means anything)??? What are your thoughts and what would you likely do in this situation?
Thanks

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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by Wobbley on 12/4/2017, 5:26 pm

If you have a pre-Series 70 Colt National Match Gold Cup it is Worth more than a RO unless it has been messed with a lot.  

If you had a smith fit a new barrel, bushing and slide stop to the NM Colt, you’d have everything the RO gives you and maybe a bit more.  

My 2£?
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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by LenV on 12/4/2017, 7:27 pm

Could be worth a bunch. Found a pre war for just under 10k. This one is fetching a fair price right now. Just sold for 2186.00

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/720804277

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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by troystaten on 12/4/2017, 11:02 pm

If you decide to use the Colt their barrels are pretty good from what I understand and just fitting it and putting a new bushing might be an improvement.  My thoughts and 5 bucks will get you a beer at some bars so you might also ask a good bulleye smith.

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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by SteveBrown on 12/5/2017, 8:00 am

Thanks for the replies! I'm not sure about the pre series, this one has series 70 marked so it's apparently not a pre series??? 
Len, I'm not that lucky to stumble across a really valuable gun but I wish! I don't know much about Colts and their values although I shoot a Colt in competitions.
Troy, I may do just that... Thank you.

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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by SteveBrown on 12/5/2017, 8:05 am

I have the original grips also. I will clean it up and take better pictures later.

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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by Tim:H11 on 12/5/2017, 8:20 am

SteveBrown wrote:I have the original grips also. I will clean it up and take better pictures later.

Looks like some work has already been done to that gun so collectors value won’t be a lot - or I could be mistaken, I’m not a professional... but if it were me I’d finish the the gun. Have it accurized or tuned up and you’ll be good to go and won’t need another gun if the work is done by someone who knows what they’re doing (Jon or KC).
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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by JKR on 12/5/2017, 8:41 am

Is that a Colt lower receiver? Doesn't look like the wide Gold Cup trigger from what I can see in your pictures. There's already been a fair amount of work done on it so I wouldn't worry about it's originality.

Nice looking pistol. Shoot it! That's the only milk she gives! (Wisconsin term)

Jim

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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by BE Mike on 12/5/2017, 9:24 am

I used to have a Series 70 Gold Cup and shot bullseye pistol matches with it. I own a Jim Clark, Sr. Heavy Slide, built on a Colt Gov't model. I have owned other accurized bulleye pistols. The Heavy Slide first came with a Colt barrel that had been fitted, now a Kart. I own two Springfield Armory pistols; one a Trophy Match and the other a Loaded. The Springers are CNC machined and therefore come with a better slide to frame fit. Both Colt and SA have forged frames and slides. Either having the Colt accurized or selling it and having a RO accurized are pretty much equal regarding value, however seeing that you are an Expert, I'd recommend getting a SA and sending it to a bullseye pistolsmith and letting them accurize it to your specifications. I think the Kart barrels are superior to Colt built up barrels and the frame to slide fit is better on the SA. You may even want to just buy a top notch slide and frame and let a bullseye pistolsmith do his magic with new quality parts. Your Gold Cup has a different trigger, modified trigger guard and checkered front strap. Who knows what other work it has had. It won't bring as much as one that is stock. If you go with the Gold Cup, I highly recommend getting Acc-U-Rails installed instead of the standard peening and fitting of the rails. I have this on one of my old Colt Government Models and it put new life in that gun. You won't have to worry about the slide to frame fit shooting loose again.
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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by Jon Eulette on 12/5/2017, 9:26 am

From the pics I couldn't tell what model the frame was. But for sure; not original front or rear sights, thumb safety and slidestop were changed out, trigger guard squared, shorter trigger (not wide?), checkered front strap, commander hammer instead of spur.
So from gunsmith perspective it looks like Frankengun. My initial thoughts are everything probably needs replaced; unknown builder.......I always fear the worst based on my experience. The pistol has no value as a Gold Cup in my opinion because of all the modifications. So choice now is to build or not to build? If slide lugs are centered (Colts are often off center) you can have frame rails welded, refit frame and slide then barrel it and replace necessary parts (scope mount?) and have a good BE pistol. It already has a checkered front strap which the RO does not. So it will be close to same price to build a RO......you just have to decide which pistol you'd rather have/shoot.
Jon
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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by Wobbley on 12/5/2017, 10:25 am

The gun you have was built on an Essex frame.  The slide is Colt original.  So the gun has a normal vale for an Essex framed gun.  Sorry about that...

So now the gates are wide open.  

Essex frames were decent frames back in their day.  Not up to present day Caspian, but still pretty good.  A good basis to build on.  You could sell it for 800 or so (maybe) but put in a properly fit barrel, a slide mount optic, tighten the slide to frame fit, and clean up any trigger issues and you’d have a better gun than the RO.
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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by james r chapman on 12/5/2017, 10:59 am

Ultimately, how does it shoot.
That will probably be most telling.
Run some Federal Gold Medal match 185's thru it off bags or preferably a rest and see what it does at long line yardage.
25 yds might tell you enough.
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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by Doug Tiedt on 12/5/2017, 12:29 pm

james r chapman wrote:Ultimately, how does it shoot.
That will probably be most telling.
Run some Federal Gold Medal match 185's thru it off bags or preferably a rest and see what it does at long line yardage.
25 yds might tell you enough.

What?  Make a decision based on real data?  Jim, you take the fun out of all conversations!  Smile

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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by james r chapman on 12/5/2017, 1:25 pm

Doug Tiedt wrote:
james r chapman wrote:Ultimately, how does it shoot.
That will probably be most telling.
Run some Federal Gold Medal match 185's thru it off bags or preferably a rest and see what it does at long line yardage.
25 yds might tell you enough.

What?  Make a decision based on real data?  Jim, you take the fun out of all conversations!  Smile

Ah, shucks, I don't follow that advice either! Rather take the long road to the short conclusion.
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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by LenV on 12/5/2017, 3:06 pm

Hmm. Randall Fung grips, mostly Gold Cup. Guess which way I would go. Very Happy

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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by SteveBrown on 12/5/2017, 5:01 pm

You all are great. It was very good of the well thought out replies and the time to put it down, I really appreciate it and take your advice seriously! I'm glad I didn't post it in the classified section and really look like an ass!
I'm having issues with my eyes so I can't take it out for a while and am doing all of this during my down time. 
Now that I know it's a FrankenColt I'll keep it and have the work done by a member. Keeping it will be easier than attempting an accurate description and wouldn't want to misrepresent the Franken parts assembled together to make it! Thanks again for your time and great advice.
Steve
LenV, I had those Fung grips and put them on after I bought the gun. They are great grips and I wish I had a few more sets.

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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by Wobbley on 12/5/2017, 7:17 pm

Lots of “Frankenguns” shoot just fine.
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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by Jon Eulette on 12/5/2017, 7:39 pm

Wobbley wrote:Lots of “Frankenguns” shoot just fine.
+1
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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by Froneck on 12/7/2017, 7:09 am

Nuttin wrong with a Frankengun, Everyone in the AMU is shooting with one. All depends on how it's made. Some shoot good at a BE target when properly made, others are better if thrown at the target!

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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by SteveBrown on 12/7/2017, 7:13 am

That's hilarious.

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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by Mac2 on 12/9/2017, 11:42 am

Colt now sells series 70 competition in 45ACP and 9mm.  I have learned to avoid Springfield because I have found insides not to be 100% standard 1911.  Not always clear where Springfield's are made.  At end of day, Colt saves money and effort.

Colt barrels seem to be somewhat better and tend to have a slower twist that fits bullseye better.  All opinion.  

Of course, have KC tailor a 1911 to you and you will be supper happy.

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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by Tim:H11 on 12/9/2017, 2:45 pm

Mac2 wrote:I have learned to avoid Springfield because I have found insides not to be 100% standard 1911.  Not always clear where Springfield's are made.  At end of day, Colt saves money and effort.

Colt barrels seem to be somewhat better and tend to have a slower twist that fits bullseye better.  All opinion.  

My RO shoots three to four inches from sandbags with minimal testing and my own cast loads. Perhaps it could do better with quality jacketed bullets and a ransom rest or further testing to find a better load but It's better (stock out of the box) than some Colts being made today from the factory that I've seen. 

I haven't seen issues with internals not being "standard" except for the firing pin, and mainspring housing and the housing's internals. Thats just lawyer safety mumbo jumbo. It can easily be changed out to "Colt" type or "standardized" parts. Except the firing pin. That is determined by the channel or the firing pin hole. But springs and the mainspring housing stuff can be changed. And the firing pin can be changed too so long as you get a matching diameter. 

I'm shooting an RO frame on my Nelson for a .22LR, a Springfield Mil Spec Jon turned into a Wad Gun, and a stock RO for Hard Ball. No problems. They just need to be properly set up four our application is all. We aren't plinkers. We are after something more. No offense to plinkers. I was plinking with a Model 52B this morning! Smile

Springfield makes good slides and frames. I wouldn't be afraid of using one. I'm not ... I have three! And want more!
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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by LenV on 12/9/2017, 3:14 pm

RO's are great. I use one as a back up for my Gold Cup. Laughing Spoiler alert. Gold Cup not stock. Roddy Toyota beat, welded, tweeked and replaced parts until it is a tack driver. RO not stock either but all work was done by me. I am not a gunsmith but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.

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Re: Upgrade Colt or RO

Post by Jon Eulette on 12/9/2017, 4:11 pm

I'm rebarreling a RO as we speak. The frame to slide fit is darn good from the factory. Now that I have the barrel fit there is zero play vertically or horizontally. This guns going to be a shooter!
I like the tolerances on the RO much better than the old Colts. Much more forgiving to the pistolsmith.
Jon
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