S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

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S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by Precisionjunky on 12/13/2017, 10:42 pm

First topic message reminder :

I have been considering a Victory 22lr as I begin entering precision shooting competitions. Some of my research has uncovered dissatisfaction with the loosening of the take down screws and also some with the barrel screw as a result of vibration while shooting. This seems to happen quite quickly, At least in earlier production. But I saw on another forum someone claiming that S&W fixed the issue with a small redesign. Does anyone know this to be true?  Just FYI The victory seems to be a gun you can grow with due to it's accuracy and the aftermarket accessories, triggers, barrels, grips etc  that are already available. (still waiting on some sight choices).

Andy
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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by LenV on 12/19/2017, 11:18 am

I think the OP found himself a nice High Standard but I think the concern about a well balanced and light weight .22 that is accurate enough for Bullseye keeps rattling around in my thoughts. There is such a pistol. They are out of production now but you can still find them easy enough. It took me 2 minutes to find a nice one on Gunbroker. The Browning Challenger was my backup pistol for a long long time. The balance is great and accuracy is spot on. I will have to try sometime to see if the new Buckmark scope mount will fit right on the old Challenger. They look like they should...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/729143927

Gunbrokers




Old and the new generation. You can see the weight difference.
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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by Aprilian on 12/19/2017, 11:40 am

Len, the Buckmark and Challenger rails differ significantly, here is a guy who made really nice rails for sale for the Challenger - Deaconblue  

I made one custom out of an AR mount and plan to shoot it tonight in league.  It was my dad's first pistol, so I wanted to make it unique (but I still have all the stock parts). 
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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by Precisionjunky on 12/19/2017, 12:25 pm

Mac2 wrote:To the possible screw issue:  the SW22 competitor keeps T handle wrenches close by and tests the tightness of the critical screws on a regular basis.  Rare, anymore, to need to tighten screws.  Expect everyone gives things a bit of a wiggle to see if anything is loose.  I have discovered a sight loose just before timed fire and was given a few seconds to tighten.

What has been demonstrated many times is the need for fit.  Fit has several components.  Weight and its distribution is one component.  What is vital is that new competitors try the lower price 22s with red-dot sights.  The SW22, several Mark IV (especially the Lite for someone not yet ready for more weight), and even a selected Buckmark should be tried.  Provide opportunity to try.  When some success has been achieved with a fitting low-price-spread it might be time to try something more expensive.  By then, the new shooter will have an idea of what he or she needs, likes and does not like, and may be on the way to an activity for life.

warm seasons greetings to all     Mac
I was in my first competitive NRA compliant league match yesterday with a borrowed Ruger 22/45 mark iii. Didn't do that bad.. all shots on the paper and pretty consistent. But the stock Ruger's trigger left something to be desired. I also shot the Victory after the match and a Hammerli and a Marvel. All nice guns. The Victory was a lot better then I expected. Didn't like the grips but the sights were good and it was a well balance gun in my hand and the trigger was much better than the Ruger out of the box, I may choose the Victory over the Ruger??? The Hammerli and Marvel were OK too. lol
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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by Precisionjunky on 12/19/2017, 1:22 pm

gregbenner wrote:I started bull's-eye shooting about a year ago. Like you, I was concerned about the weight (I am 69, and not the strongest guy in the world). I purchased a victory, and Jon did a complete trigger job, made it as good as it could be. It sits in my safe. After two or three months of shooting, I realized the victory was way too light. For a mid priced target pistol I really like the S&W 41. Reasonably priced, excellent triggers, no issues with magazines, are still made and parts are available.  Lots of aftermarket availability, as well.
The Model 41 is a great pistol.. but I don't think I can go for the money on that just yet.. In a year or two I could justify the expense if I am spending most of my time in precision shooting. I can always sell one of my tactical guns for the model 41, I like the new performance center version with the built in rail. Due to my many other obligation I have to start small. I will probably stick with a mid wait gun.. probably sometime between 35 and 40 oz before any aftermarket accessories. They seem to feel the best to me right now.
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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by Precisionjunky on 12/21/2017, 7:40 am

Slartybartfast wrote:
Magload wrote:I have VQ triggers in my MK III and 22/45 Lite but VQ just never came out with a trigger for this gun unless they have just lately.
 The Tandemkross trigger I put on mine made a big difference to the feel of the gun. Love the textured flat front.

Is that the factory plastic rail on your SW22? Or is it the Volquartsen CNC one (https://volquartsen.com/inventory_configurations/1085)?

I emailed them asking if that rail could be machined in the rear to accept target sights (I suggested the same as Ruger). Would be nice to be able to switch between red dot and irons without losing zero. And would gain access to all the target sights already available for another firearm. Would just need a taller front sight or a shim.
DIP inc makes a rail that integrates the sights nicely like this two choices  https://www.diproductsinc.com/Products.aspx?CAT=10283

Andy
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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by Slartybartfast on 12/21/2017, 9:37 am

Precisionjunky wrote:

DIP inc makes a rail that integrates the sights nicely like this two choices  https://www.diproductsinc.com/Products.aspx?CAT=10283

Andy
Nice! Great find.
The Victory Vent Rib Rail Kit is _almost_ exactly what I want. If they could make one that integrated sights other than the SW22 standard ones (meaning an interchangeable front sight on the rib as well, I'd buy it in a heart beat regardless of my credit card balance and the fact I don't take shooting with my SW22 very seriously anymore.
I wouldn't really care which pistol sights standard they choose, just as long as there's a target sight or two available. Ruger or maybe one of the S&W revolver standards (https://www.speedbeez.com/product-category/revolver-sights/target-blade/).
Just choose the gun with the largest number of aftermarket sight sets available and make the rail and vent compatible with that.
Another bug I have about the SW22, WTH in this day and age of CNC machining, can't one of the big European grip manufacturers not simply pump out a grip for the SW22? They have them for the 22A, the SW22 is surely outselling that and no one seems capable of keeping the one-size-fits-a-few Volquartsen grips in stock.
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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by Slartybartfast on 12/21/2017, 10:10 am

DAMN IT!
"Sorry, but we do not ship internationally"
Why the hell not?
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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by Mac2 on 1/25/2018, 10:16 am

The last bit of an issue with the two critical screws (barrel-to-frame & rail-to-barrel) are cured with a bit of bees-wax on the threads.  Locktight, and others, make anti-seize gook that also works.  Nevertheless and independently of pistol involved, one automatically verifies tightness in "prep-time."  

Especially for new or strength-challenged competitors, the Victory with enhanced insides and possibly lighter barrel is effective and economical.  High-standard would be nice, but not so easy to maintain and tends to be expensive.  Magazines tend to be fussy.  Mark IV Lite is also a candidate for more money.  It too needs internal enhancements and those who have compared enhanced Victory and enhanced Lite (same red-dot sight) found the Lite more difficult to shoot accurately.  

Need new people in Bullseye.  Both the Victory and Mark IV Lite are rather easy to enhance, have reasonable cost magazines, sufficient accuracy, are available, and will set the path to something even better (if the better is not too heavy).

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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by LenV on 1/25/2018, 10:29 am

If you want light weight then avoid the Ruger MKIV Competition. The trigger is junk to start with but Ruger also went out of their way to make this pistol heavy. I scoffed at the idea that it might be too heavy for me but after a 900 with it this month I am looking for lighter scope alternatives. Even the lightest scope is only going to take 3 oz off this weight.

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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by jglenn21 on 1/25/2018, 11:09 am

Don't know which Hammerli you tested but I'll throw the trailside into the equation. They are the same pistol as the Xesse from walther these days but can be had much cheaper on the open market. I'm just got a very nice 4.5" off gunbroker for my wife.  It is very light in stock configuration but has many weight options both from the factory and Larry's. The pistol had a few issues early on but it's very solid now. Excellent trigger that can be configured into pretty much any configuration you'd want. The newer X-esse has a few improvements but you can order them if you like for the trailside..
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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by Mac2 on 1/25/2018, 3:03 pm

Thanks jglenn for expanding possibilities on the lighter bullseye 22 pistols.  Just to be clear:  it is the "Trailside" pistol that you bought for your wife and the "Trailside" is able to receive improvements (from?) that are intended for the "X-esse."  
What is the weight of the "Trailside?"     I need to learn about "gunbroker."
Thanks

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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by Multiracer on 1/25/2018, 4:40 pm



Victory, Volquartsen, Tandemkross and virtually any optic. Its a good shooter.

I just assisted a friend installing a Volquartsen trigger kit in a new Ruger MK IV and it made a world of difference in his gun.

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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by jglenn21 on 1/25/2018, 4:55 pm

The Trailside and X-esse are really the same pistol.. originally Sig owned the rights to Hammerli and had them produce the Trailside as an economy version of the 208/215.. Walther later acquired the rights and made a few changes and renamed it the X-esse..

I have a 6" trailside I'm working on for myself... made the mistake ( note to self) of letting my wife shoot it a while back.. so then she wanted one and when I said they also make a 4.5" barrel that's what she opted for.. She was tired of her H-S 107 with a 1" UD being a bit heavy for her after shoulder sugery. you have to know my wife. I've let her use some of my golf clubs before and have never seen them again..(you'd think I'd learn after 45 years)

I  build my own guns,  so after talking with Jon a bit I changed the trigger to a single stage and shorted the pull a fair amount.. the part I borrowed from the X-esse was their adjustable second stage trigger screw.. in the Trailside it is not adjustable for weight. (this screw has a spring inside and a ball detent in the tip) . in the X-esse it is adjustable for pressure  via a small set screw inside of the outer  screw..so I ordered these directly from Walther USA. Part # is 2742106 for anyone interested.. it simply makes adjusting the trigger weight easier..  the screw with detent also servers as a trigger stop somewhat.

from the factory the pistol have a Very smooth but long trigger pull designed to be a two stage pull.. I changed mine just because  I don't care for a two stage..

Larry's Guns is a Hammerli dealer and carries quite a few parts for the two guns( which really are the same inside). He has a unique mount for the 6" and weights in aluminum and steel for both length pistols. He also has an improved trigger kit that helps but leaves it a two stage trigger thus the reason I did not use it.  Lot's of folks like his kit though

both pistols have a 22 tip off cut in their barrel so mounting a dot is very easy.. Leupold and Warne both make nice tipoff mounts. 

My 6" was too light for me so I added a 95gr weight and a Aimpoint 9000sc that pretty much got it very close to my Marvel conversion.

sorry for being long winded.
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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by Precisionjunky on 1/28/2018, 1:34 pm

So, I chicken out an bought a Ruger Mark IV target 5.5 inch barrel. I put a tandem cross flat faced trigger on it and changed out the firing pin and extractor for Volquartsen parts. I also got some wood grips that widen the stock a little bit and have a thumb rest. I will probably keep it like this for a while before I do anymore mods.
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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

Post by Mac2 on 1/29/2018, 9:33 pm

Many thanks to JGlenn.  I will file his excellent discourse where I can study it when one of the pistols appears.  I suspect that the weight is a concern.

A desire for better grips on Victory:  a local competitor found the "Starburst" grips in G10 from Andrew Shinosky in Eastern Ohio to be excellent.  The almost horizontal grooves in the critical places helped a lot.  Hope to have same pattern for lightweight 9mm 1911 used for CF.  See BullsEye Grips.  Amazon has a bunch made in PRC that might suit some people.

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Re: S&W Victory 22lr screw issue

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