Not all the media is biased.

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Not all the media is biased.

Post by USSR on 12/17/2017, 5:51 pm

My local small town newspaper ran what I consider an excellent article on the Metallic Cartridge Reloading Course I teach in the Winter.   Can't ask for more than that.

Don


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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by fpk on 12/17/2017, 7:47 pm

Maybe your class is what I am missing... the "save money" part still has not materialized for me!

Seriously, that is great the newspaper carried the story and that you help people get into reloading.

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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by USSR on 12/17/2017, 8:00 pm

fpk wrote:Maybe your class is what I am missing... the "save money" part still has not materialized for me!

Seriously, that is great the newspaper carried the story and that you help people get into reloading.
Yeah Paul, the save money headline was certainly not my idea.   I'm with you, still waiting for it to happen.

don

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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by desben on 12/18/2017, 4:26 am

You save money Vs shooting the same amount of factory ammo.

Similar articles in the mainstream press are few and far between. It's refreshing to see. Good on you Don for giving your time teaching this class.
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by BE Mike on 12/18/2017, 8:00 am

desben wrote:You save money Vs shooting the same amount of factory ammo.

Similar articles in the mainstream press are few and far between. It's refreshing to see. Good on you Don for giving your time teaching this class.
Nice article! If a bullseye pistol shooter doesn't think that reloading .45 ACP saves money, just go out and purchase enough Federal Match .45 ACP for a 2700 and get back to us! Check this out: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/953266229/federal-premium-gold-medal-match-ammunition-45-acp-185-grain-full-metal-jacket-semi-wadcutter
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 12/18/2017, 9:12 am

Good on you Don for promoting metallic cartridge reloading!  I tend to disagree, and think all the media is biased - it's part of human nature.  The trick is finding a bias that is not hostile.  Nice Job!

I learned in my youth that reloading could save substantial money (provided you actually shot the ammo) and companies like Lee Precision allowed cost effective reloading for smaller amounts of ammo.  My buddies got me involved back then.  Now days, I'm looking at a Dillon 650 which requires some dedication to the sport before it becomes cost effective - of course that doesn't include the operators time.   Once the operators time is considered, the more expensive equipment becomes practical.

p.s. I still think the Lee and RCBS type of loading presses are very useful for load development.

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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by USSR on 12/18/2017, 9:19 am

Yeah, I don't see how anyone could afford to buy and shoot store bought ammo exclusively.   Of course, if you only shoot a couple times a year, I suppose.   But, as I tell people, accuracy (especially with a handgun) is only attained thru lots of practice.

Don

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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by Slartybartfast on 12/18/2017, 9:28 am

Congratulations on the media coverage and good for you on the classes.
And fight the bias by not being biased. My clubs both are incredibly biased against various groups (including shooting federations), media, and public exposure that I know not to bother anymore with suggestions to specific people of how to promote activities.

USSR,
I've found that while the reloaders at my club will have a discussion while at the club on the topic, it is difficult to parse the arcane and very quickly technical information they'll discuss.
I asked if anyone shared loading equipment. Only to be told it wasn't possible at the club level to have shared equipment.
What (besides price probably) stops a pooling of resources amongst bullseye shooters as a club acquiring some high end or even automated equipment and everyone taking turns doing their loads?
(This perhaps: http://www.camdexloader.com/2100Pistol.aspx or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehnkPqIlBXE)
What would it take to turn a class, followed by a solo effort, into a community effort and mindset for reloading?
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by USSR on 12/18/2017, 9:43 am

Slartybartfast wrote:Congratulations on the media coverage and good for you on the classes.
And fight the bias by not being biased. My clubs both are incredibly biased against various groups (including shooting federations), media, and public exposure that I know not to bother anymore with suggestions to specific people of how to promote activities.

USSR,
I've found that while the reloaders at my club will have a discussion while at the club on the topic, it is difficult to parse the arcane and very quickly technical information they'll discuss.
I asked if anyone shared loading equipment. Only to be told it wasn't possible at the club level to have shared equipment.
What (besides price probably) stops a pooling of resources amongst bullseye shooters as a club acquiring some high end or even automated equipment and everyone taking turns doing their loads?
(This perhaps: http://www.camdexloader.com/2100Pistol.aspx or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehnkPqIlBXE)
What would it take to turn a class, followed by a solo effort, into a community effort and mindset for reloading?


Uh, that would be the club's lawyers. I will tell you how far this can go. The first metallic cartridge reloading course I offered was in a Bass Pro. Imagine my shock when they told me their lawyers wouldn't allow me to use gunpowder in my class.   I ended up using finely ground walnut shell media in the powder measure, but weight .vs volume was WAY off. Needless to say, that was the first and last course I offered at Bass Pro.

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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by desben on 12/18/2017, 10:08 am

Don, did BassPro allow you to use real primers? Those things are way more dangerous than powder. Then again, what do lawyers know about that stuff...
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by USSR on 12/18/2017, 11:14 am

desben wrote:Don, did BassPro allow you to use real primers? Those things are way more dangerous than powder. Then again, what do lawyers know about that stuff...

Yeah, that's the funny part.   Like you said "what do lawyers know about that stuff".

Don

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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by Slartybartfast on 12/18/2017, 12:54 pm

USSR wrote:

Uh, that would be the club's lawyers. 

Well, I'd expect a letter from the liability insurance provider that would clarify what would be covered or not. Whether the cost of having the correct coverage is affordable or not would be an issue.
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by Magload on 12/18/2017, 1:16 pm

Most people do not save money reloading but they do shoot more for the same cost.  I tend to not want to know how much it cost every time the gun goes bang.  

Sports Academy could not sell smokeless powder but had black powder and a shelf full of primers.  They now sell it here a store managers were good enough to get that rule changed.  Don
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by Wobbley on 12/18/2017, 1:30 pm

The Camden and even the Super 1050 would be beyond the means of most clubs. That said, it really doesn’t take much space to reload for pistol shooting and perhaps slightly more for rifle. Take a course and start. You can also parse through this YouTube playlist for some fundamentals. https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTTrjvDib94l4NNyug0efjXsXokBksmRa
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by Jon Eulette on 12/18/2017, 1:39 pm

Magload wrote:Most people do not save money reloading but they do shoot more for the same cost.  I tend to not want to know how much it cost every time the gun goes bang.
Can you explain in more detail about not saving money? I couldn't afford to shoot 45 id I didn't reload.
Jon
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by Slartybartfast on 12/18/2017, 2:28 pm

Wobbley wrote:The Camden and even the Super 1050 would be beyond the means of most clubs.  That said, it really doesn’t take much space to reload for pistol shooting and perhaps slightly more for rifle.  Take a course and start.  You can also parse through this YouTube playlist for some fundamentals.  https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTTrjvDib94l4NNyug0efjXsXokBksmRa
Not questioning space. I'm questioning cost and sharing knowledge and experience and making it a group activity.

If (or when) I buy a 45, I've already made a pack with a colleague that we buy our reloading equipment together. How we work out where it gets installed and how to guarantee access are hurdles to cross when we get there.

And if we cross those hurdles for two people, why not open it up to more to split costs further and invest in the best our pooled money can buy?


Last edited by Slartybartfast on 12/18/2017, 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by Tim:H11 on 12/18/2017, 2:29 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:
Magload wrote:Most people do not save money reloading but they do shoot more for the same cost.  I tend to not want to know how much it cost every time the gun goes bang.
Can you explain in more detail about not saving money? I couldn't afford to shoot 45 id I didn't reload.
Jon

I can’t afford to shoot 45 if I didn’t cast my own projectiles! Course I was able to find lead cheap for a little while too and again that was the only way I made it work.
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by dronning on 12/18/2017, 2:41 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Can you explain in more detail about not saving money? I couldn't afford to shoot 45 id I didn't reload.
Jon

Per round savings absolutely, but everyone tends to shoot more so no real "NET" savings.  In fact in my own case because it was so much cheaper per round I started shooting way more and probably spent twice as much money.
- Dave
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by fpk on 12/18/2017, 4:30 pm

dronning wrote:
Jon Eulette wrote:Can you explain in more detail about not saving money? I couldn't afford to shoot 45 id I didn't reload.
Jon

Per round savings absolutely, but everyone tends to shoot more so no real "NET" savings.  In fact in my own case because it was so much cheaper per round I started shooting way more and probably spent twice as much money.
- Dave
^^ this!

I was joking about the "save money" comment.  I reload & cast, and as a result get my 45acp down to less than $0.06 each. 

If I didn't reload all my ammo I couldn't have the 4-5 gun projects going on at the same time! Laughing

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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by Wobbley on 12/18/2017, 5:02 pm

They don’t give this stuff away whether you load it or the ammo factory loads it. So you don’t really save money. Saving money like that is a quick trip to the poorhouse.

But it does allow to shoot more for the same money. I just wish powder was still $6.00 per pound and primers were still $10.00 per thousand. Sigh.
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by Sa-tevp on 12/18/2017, 6:01 pm

At an industry conference for another field one of the presenters had to defend his company's business decision on adopting a new monitoring program as "We were told we couldn't afford to save that much money."

Yep, I work in an industry with too many smart people that cannot see that being cheap costs a lot of money.

Reloading helps my CF and 45 progress.
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by Magload on 12/18/2017, 7:35 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:
Magload wrote:Most people do not save money reloading but they do shoot more for the same cost.  I tend to not want to know how much it cost every time the gun goes bang.
Can you explain in more detail about not saving money? I couldn't afford to shoot 45 id I didn't reload.
Jon
Sure easy.  Say your budget allows you to spend $100 a month for store bought ammo.  Now we won't even factor in what the reloading equipment cost all the little extra stuff we think we need.  So we spend that $100 on bullets, powder and primers and load up way more rounds then we bought at the store.  Hmm these rounds are cheap so I can shoot a lot more of them when I go to the range and there fore maybe even shoot up more then the $100 I would have spent at the store for factory loads.  I shoot more, have more fun but really don't save any money.  I shoot 4 to 5 days a week 52 weeks a year so I have to limat the number of rounds I shoot each day but if I had to buy factory loads i would just shoot less and still spend all my money.  Don
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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 12/19/2017, 8:37 am

As another viewpoint, I don't reload to save money.  I reload to get a custom round with low recoil that is reliable.  I can afford to shoot Federal Gold 185 grain SWC for $35/box, primarily because I generally don't shoot more than 50 rounds for each range outing.  Perhaps that's bad, and shooting more = better shooting.  But, I was taught to shoot by folks who lived through the depression and 'wasting' ammo was not done.  Also, I find there is only so much focus and energy for good shots.  More does not equal better (at least for me).  It's the custom loads and control of the ammunition that drives my reloading.

Edit: It is a fact, the $35/50 rounds will cost ~ $9/50 rounds when reloading.

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Re: Not all the media is biased.

Post by zanemoseley on 12/19/2017, 7:23 pm

Some stuff pays to reload and some doesn't. If I get a good deal on lead I can cast and reload a target 45 load for roughly $.07 each, I also use Magnus #801 bullets which takes it to roughly $.15 each. Both are a huge bargain compared to Federal Match.

On the other hand I used to shoot a lot of skeet with a 12ga over/under. I reloaded 7/8 ounce loads, compare that to Wal-Mart bulk and you didn't save much but I got a nice light load and had fun loading. Same goes for 9mm and .223, unless you need a specialty or accurate load you're better off buying bulk for plinking. By time I buy a set of Dillon dies and a powder drop for my Hornady LNL to dedicate to the caliber I'm up to $200 in just tooling alone, add brass bullets primers and powder and the Wal-Mart bulk ammo looks pretty nice.

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Re: Not all the media is biased.

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