Practicing trigger control with air pistol

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Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 12/20/2017, 5:01 pm

Greetings,

I've found some benefits to shooting an air pistol at home.  While shooting an air pistol (at home) will never replace or duplicate shooting a match, or even a .45 at the range, trigger control - or grip and trigger confidence can be practiced.  By that I mean the ability to point the pistol at the target, pre-load the trigger, then fire the shot without thumbing, squeezing the fingers with the trigger, heeling, or numerous other grip/trigger ailments.  In condensed form, being comfortable (or confident) in having the the grip, stance, and hold to squeeze the trigger when the sights are aligned and on target (or close). 

To me, it's fairly easy to 'intellectualize' the shot process and think about the steps, write them down, memorize them, talk about them, etc.  But, that is very different from making that process part of the sub conscious so there is no anxiety, fear, or panic when the sight picture is there, the gun is held, and all that is left is squeezing the trigger.  Maybe all that can be done dry firing, but I've found that heeling, gripping while squeezing the trigger, and thumbing do not seem to appear during my dry firing.   But, shooting air pistol (which is still very different from live firing) can bring out those undesired traits.  Is this common knowledge, or do most find live with dry firing adequate or even superior?

Stan

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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by Boris_La on 12/21/2017, 12:19 am

While ago when i just starting to compete in Metallic Silhouette, I was shooting Air Pistol and Smallbore pistols. Practicing with air pistol at home as well. My scores with both guns was improving at the same rate and skills developed translated directly between disciplines. I made it the master about the same time in both too.
If you want to practice with air pistol, I would pick the one that has similar grip and trigger. It doesn't completely replaces the dry fire, but supplement it and gives you more "trigger time" which is good. Many firearm imitating airguns don't really have the mechanical accuracy of firearm, but on closer distance if you can reach the potential of of airgun that will improve at least the 22 portion of your BE shooting.


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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by Amati on 2/20/2018, 6:02 am

Old thread but one that I read carefully when Stan first posted it.

In the meantime I've set up a 10 meter lane and target in the garage and I've mastered the differences between SSP and PCP. 

The practice tool is now fast becoming a hobby within the hobby and soon I'll be looking for air pistol match competitions.

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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 2/20/2018, 6:14 am

I use my air pistol to train for Bullseye.  After working through the second lesson in the USMC workbook, I can see some of the same traits coming through in air pistol which show up when shooting .22.  I probably just notice them more. 

Still, for me, air pistol is a step closer to live firing with a distinct difference from dry firing.  One particular part of my shot process is to fire the shot within two seconds of having the sights aligned.  Air pistol helps duplicate that 'sense of urgency' and any undesired behavior shows up on the target.

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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by Jwhelan939 on 2/22/2018, 8:16 pm

Probably just my experience, but... 
I started practicing in the off-season with an lp10 2 years ago.  I really enjoyed it. Actually it became a hobby of its own. I was averaging 560s with the ap and having fun. My 22 scores went way up too. Unfortunately, I really feel as though it hurt my 45 scores. I developed a bad flinch when shooting the 45. I began getting two very distinct groups. One on the x, and one 2" low and 2" left. Both great groups, but in different locations. I have stopped shooting ap and am just focusing on the 45. Things are slowly getting better. This experience may be unique to me. 

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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by Amati on 2/26/2018, 7:50 am

Stan's post got me started and one of the sources that I found on the subject is Pilkington:     http://www.pilkguns.com/hhg-shtml/

Any opinions about the company?

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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by Jack H on 2/26/2018, 11:39 am

Amati wrote:Stan's post got me started and one of the sources that I found on the subject is Pilkington:     http://www.pilkguns.com/hhg-shtml/

Any opinions about the company?

One of the best ever.....
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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by Jon Eulette on 2/26/2018, 12:01 pm

Jwhelan939 wrote:I began getting two very distinct groups. One on the x, and one 2" low and 2" left. Both great groups, but in different locations. I have stopped shooting ap and am just focusing on the 45. Things are slowly getting better. This experience may be unique to me. [/size]

AP typically has 1# trigger. 1911 45 has 3.5# trigger. AP go bang without much effort. 45 needs continual trigger squeeze that should start before lowering into the bull and requires confidence to break shot sooner than later. Most shooters tend to hold too long and break shots later in their hold. Result is commonly low and to left of the bull. I wouldn't attribute to AP but to not commiting to squeezing the 1911 heavier trigger with purpose/confidence. It does make a difference. That's part of the reason Chris Miceli shot 886 with the 45. He owned the trigger!
Jon
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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by jmdavis on 2/26/2018, 3:24 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:
I wouldn't attribute to AP but to not commiting to squeezing the 1911 heavier trigger with purpose/confidence. It does make a difference. That's part of the reason Chris Miceli shot 886 with the 45. He owned the trigger!

It was a good gun that Chris was shooting too. I liked it alot. Some guy out west built it.  :-)
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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by Amati on 2/26/2018, 9:36 pm

jmdavis wrote:
Jon Eulette wrote:.... He owned the trigger!

It was a good gun that Chris was shooting too. I liked it alot. Some guy out west built it.  :-)

What kind of trigger did that guy install in that gun?

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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by Jon Eulette on 2/26/2018, 9:55 pm

Medium length trigger with short roll.
Jon
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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by Amati on 2/27/2018, 6:11 am

Sounds like a perfect confluence of forces. Congrats to all.

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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 5/2/2018, 7:31 am

What I have noticed is that my .22 scores have increased but my .45 scores have not when training using an air pistol.  I expect that will continue.  One thing I am trying, with respect to trigger control, is using a dry fire magazine for rapid fire training. 

I expect that sounds ridiculous, with pellets being pennies and targets not much more.  But, my focus on this activity is sight alignment and trigger squeeze - literally.  Having a dry fire magazine allows rapid fire dry firing.  I'll see how that goes.  Still do not expect it to help with the .45 though as described by Jwhelan939.

p.s.  FWIW I am using the 3.5 lb trigger on the air pistol with the .22 trigger set at 2.75 lb and the .45 at 3.5 lb.  The .45, which I started shooting in August 2017, is more challenging for me to shoot consistently - at least during a league match.

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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by jmdavis on 5/2/2018, 9:08 am

How much are you dry-firing the 45? Have you begun the Marine Corps Workbook? What kind of drills are you using?

You need recoil to master recoil. I don't think that it's the air pistol in itself that helps but a program that you do consistently. Dryfire, airgun, .22 and .45 in a methodical method will bring improvement and results. The USMC workbook is on this board as a sticky under fundamentals. Start it today. Dry fire the .45 today. 

Do you have a ball gun, is distinguished a goal? If so, start dryfiring the ball gun too. Mastering the 4lb trigger helps more than mastering the 2.75lb trigger.


Last edited by jmdavis on 5/2/2018, 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by jejajones on 5/2/2018, 9:58 am

When I bought my Victor I needed to replace the rh grips to lh. I had new grips made that are very close to being a clone of my air gun (Alecto) grips. I practice with the Alecto all the time and it has helped considerably with shooting the Victor. I shoot the Alecto at 50 ft to also practice keeping the red dot in the black.
I am surprised that more shooters don't use an air pistol for practice

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Re: Practicing trigger control with air pistol

Post by IT1 Wes on 5/22/2018, 7:30 pm

I switched from pellets to steel BBs when SIG introduced the, "We the People," CO2 pistol. It is amazingly accurate in shape, size, functions, and dimensions to a full-size government model 1911. It wastes a little CO2 when it cycles the slide, but that makes it a little more realistic.

I revisited my project of high visibility sights in fluorescent colors. The last time I made a big mess with modeler's enamel paints. This time I found something new. A great solution for high visibility sights. gaffer's tape in fluorescent/blacklight colors. The tape is VERY sticky and it does not tear. It is very durable. You have to use a sharp knife to cut it. Very carefully trim inside the notch of the rear sight.  As you can see from the target, my groups improved immediately at least in training at ten feet.:-) 

You get five little two inch rolls for about $15.00, but how often would you use it? Much better than messy paints that separate in the bottle.

5-Pack SUPER BRIGHT UV Blacklight Reactive Fluorescent / Neon Gaffer Tape Matte Finish  [size=14].5 in x 18 ft (SMALL)  
$14.99[/size]
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CW3LH6I/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1




The Tape


The Sights


That Latest Target


All My Targets

http://whitedogelectric.com/html/Targets/Targets.htm


My 1911s
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