Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

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Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by wizzer on Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:47 am

I will be purchasing several custom expanders.  Assuming .452" lead bullets and new brass, should we be using a .450 or .451 diameter expander?  Maybe .452 on work hardened brass?

Edit--not talking flaring of case mouth, EXPANDER for inside case diameter.


Last edited by wizzer on Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:41 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by cdrt on Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:55 am

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Gary Wells on Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:11 am

Deleted per N/A notation.


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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by wizzer on Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:39 am

n/a


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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by robert84010 on Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:58 pm

I don't know the o.d. of the Lyman M die but I bought the expander made for Dillon presses off of Ebay based on the Lyman. I measured it at .452".

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by fpk on Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:18 pm

I use the NOE ".456 x .453 (P) Exp. Plug (45PEXP)" in a Lee Universal Expander die.  This opens the mouth up (not flares it) enough to hand seat LSWC for about half the driving bands.


Unfortunately the larger diameter is very short on the NOE plugs, so it does not size enough for 38 Special HBWC bullets. I wish someone made custom size expander plugs for 38 (.360 x.400 length) and 45 (.456 x .200 length).

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by wizzer on Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:52 pm

fpk--- Buffalo Arms might make a long 38 special  for you.


Last edited by wizzer on Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by james r chapman on Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:40 pm

I believe .456 for lead .
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by wizzer on Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:14 pm

.456---no kidding?  I would not have thought that much, but that is why I asked.  Seems like the bullet would be slightly loose in the case, or do we get enough springback in the case to snug things up?

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by james r chapman on Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:25 pm

Well, I have several at .455 and you still have to bell the case.
So spring back is an issue
You still have to crimp and the .456 is only for about half the bearing surface.
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by wizzer on Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:42 pm

So without getting too anal, are we worried about deforming the lower portion of the bullet the sits below the .456 ID? Do we get a somewhat longer expander shaft?

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by james r chapman on Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:49 pm

No. You need the brass to grip.
It's only to provide a shelf to allow for a straight seating bullet.
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Chris Miceli on Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:06 pm

some excellent advise from Jerry that applies to the 45 as well.

"one of the secrets to lead, is to form the brass to accept 90% of the bullet with only mild finger pressure.. The long 38 Hollow base wad cutters are approx. .580 long..Here I am loading PENN double end solids, which are approx .525 All but about .050 should slide into the case with ease.. No force..to prevent sizing the bullet down below bore diameter. The only dies I ever saw designed specifically for the long 38 wad cutters were the now extinct CH Auto Champ. This Dillion punch is custom ground.." Jerry Keefer

"pull several of your loaded rounds and mic them.. Usually, they will be small, even on the 45.." Jerry Keefer


"Remember, have the punch ground so there is enough adjustment to control the depth..Stop the forming so about .025/.030 of the bullet cannot be pushed in by hand.. This will prevent unwanted movement or set back during seating and or recoil.." Jerry Keefer
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by wizzer on Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:03 pm

Good info, much appreciated.

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by wizzer on Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:17 pm

robert84010 wrote:I don't know the o.d. of the Lyman M die but I bought the expander made for Dillon presses off of Ebay based on the Lyman. I measured it at .452".


Have not been able to find this exact item that will fit anything Dillon, do you have some contact info?

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Chris Miceli on Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:26 pm

wizzer wrote:
robert84010 wrote:I don't know the o.d. of the Lyman M die but I bought the expander made for Dillon presses off of Ebay based on the Lyman. I measured it at .452".


Have not been able to find this exact item that will fit anything Dillon, do you have some contact info?
a guy off facebook made me a custom expander for my dillon. A believe a ebay seller is out there doing the same.
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by robert84010 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:37 pm

https://www.ebay.com/usr/gscustom2013?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
This is the guy, I tried contacting him months ago for one in 9mm but he never replied. I don't think he has sold anything on Ebay for some time? The one made for the Mr. Bulletfeeder is a similar design that others here have said works fine. That is what I got for my 9mm setup. I haven't used it yet.

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by 243winxb on Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:52 pm

.450" diameter.   The brand and condition of brass will determine   the final ID of the case. 

Use a BHN 15 alloy for the cast bullets @ .452" dia. 

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by 243winxb on Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:57 pm

RCBS makes Cowboy dies with an expander only for lead. Some say its .451"  other give different measurement. I dont have one. 

Call RCBS

The 200 gr lswc Lyman Bevel base is most forgiving for me. 

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Jon Eulette on Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:13 pm

My Star is 0.4508" Bullets only finger seat on top of the case mouth flare. 
Just tossing that out there.
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by james r chapman on Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:21 pm

I guess I'm lost...
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Bullseye_Stan on Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:30 am

FWIW, my Lee powder through expander has a diameter of 0.452" along its ~0.300" length to the bell flare.  My NOE bullet M-style bullet expander for the Lee universal die measures 0.448" in diameter from the start for a ~0.230" length with a 0.452" diameter step ~0.110" long and a final step measuring 0.477" in diameter ~0.120" long.  I expect the larger 0.477" diameter is for spring back when expanding the brass.  Eventually, when my tools arrive, I intend to modify one of the Lee powder through expander inserts to mimic the Noe M-style bullet expander dimensions and see how that works.  I don't expect any significant benefit, but it could happen.

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Gary Wells on Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:40 pm

Bullseye_Stan wrote:FWIW, my Lee powder through expander has a diameter of 0.452" along its ~0.300" length to the bell flare.  My NOE bullet M-style bullet expander for the Lee universal die measures 0.448" in diameter from the start for a ~0.230" length with a 0.452" diameter step ~0.110" long and a final step measuring 0.477" in diameter ~0.120" long.  I expect the larger 0.477" diameter is for spring back when expanding the brass.  Eventually, when my tools arrive, I intend to modify one of the Lee powder through expander inserts to mimic the Noe M-style bullet expander dimensions and see how that works.  I don't expect any significant benefit, but it could happen.
Stan:
Is the "Moe' style bullet expander threaded?

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Bullseye_Stan on Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:25 pm

Gary,

Here is the NOE expander I purchased: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=89&products_id=1611&osCsid=54ho3mnldg1icu5lju5j2143e0



It's listed as a 0.452x0.448 expander, which pretty much match my measurements.  Since that expander is what I ordered, it's what I received.  That in no way means I knew what I was doing upon ordering that expander.  They make several other sizes, including a 0.453x0.448, 0.454x0.450, 0.455x0.451, 0.456x0.452, 0.457x0.453, 0.458x0.454 which all seem appropriate for the 45acp. 

I probably need to order a Lyman M expander die in 45acp and get the dimensions from that expander.  Thinking about this a bit more, I've got three of the Lee through powder expanders so making one 0.456"x0.452" makes sense - probably more so than the 0.477"x0.452".

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Blsi2600 on Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:56 pm

The NOE 456/452 is the correct setup for Zero swaged bullets.  Works great on my 1050.


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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

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