ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

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ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 12/29/2017, 9:57 am

Greetings,

I'm looking to try some other magazines in my Nelson conversion before going down the recoil spring tuning journey.  I get an occasional misfeed, which could be magazine related (using CCI SV and Norma T-22).  Has anyone used the ProMags (plastic .22lr conversion magazines) in their Nelson?  If so, did they work OK.  I've read about them working well in Marvel conversions (which, I suppose is the same) but since the Nelson has a lock-back on the last round, I'm not certain they will work with that feature.

Stan

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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by Chris Miceli on 12/29/2017, 10:02 am

when was the last time you cleaned the breach face of the conversion?
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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by dronning on 12/29/2017, 10:11 am

Bullseye_Stan wrote:Nelson has a lock-back on the last round, I'm not certain they will work with that feature.

Stan
The Pro Mags will not lock back on last round.
- Dave
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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 12/29/2017, 10:25 am

I've completely cleaned the breach, slide face and used a bore brush, boresnake, and Hoppes 9.  The conversion cycles 100% with Remington standard velocity .22 lr.  I'll try some 7 and 6.5 lb S&W M41 recoil springs and see if that fixes the issue with the lower velocity ammo (CCI SV and Norma T-22).  I was having some trouble with the slide lock back feature but after filing some of the fillet off the slide stop pin so it fit closer to the frame, that all went away.  Thanks for the info, Dave.

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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by Chris Miceli on 12/29/2017, 10:33 am

Bullseye_Stan wrote:I've completely cleaned the breach, slide face and used a bore brush, boresnake, and Hoppes 9.  The conversion cycles 100% with Remington standard velocity .22 lr.  I'll try some 7 and 6.5 lb S&W M41 recoil springs and see if that fixes the issue with the lower velocity ammo (CCI SV and Norma T-22).  I was having some trouble with the slide lock back feature but after filing some of the fillet off the slide stop pin so it fit closer to the frame, that all went away.  Thanks for the info, Dave.

https://www.nelsoncustomguns.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=13

and a 18 or 19 lb mainspring should do the trick
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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 12/29/2017, 10:39 am

Chris Miceli wrote:
Bullseye_Stan wrote:I've completely cleaned the breach, slide face and used a bore brush, boresnake, and Hoppes 9.  The conversion cycles 100% with Remington standard velocity .22 lr.  I'll try some 7 and 6.5 lb S&W M41 recoil springs and see if that fixes the issue with the lower velocity ammo (CCI SV and Norma T-22).  I was having some trouble with the slide lock back feature but after filing some of the fillet off the slide stop pin so it fit closer to the frame, that all went away.  Thanks for the info, Dave.

https://www.nelsoncustomguns.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=13

and a 18 or 19 lb mainspring should do the trick

Yea,  I'm using the 8 lb recoil spring and have installed a 19 lb Wolf mainspring.  Although, that Wolf spring seems pretty stiff to me for a 19lb mainspring.  I've got a 17 lb ISMI mainspring I can try also.

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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by JKR on 12/29/2017, 12:07 pm

If you're running you Nelson on a dedicated frame, try going a little lighter on the mainspring. I'm currently running 17 & 8 in mine. 

As Dave said the Pro Mags will work work fine but won't lock the slide back.

Jim

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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by jglenn21 on 12/29/2017, 12:44 pm

the Nelson mags are designed to be held a bit higher than the std. 22 conversion mag.. works well in most 1911 frames.. the best conversion mags that functioned in my nelson
outside of Nelson mags were the GSG metal mags.

https://gunmagwarehouse.com/ati-german-sport-guns-gsg-m-1911-22-lr-10-round-magazine.html

mine were Sig logoed and did hold the slide back.. not sure how long they would continue to do that but new they did work.
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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by MarkOue on 12/29/2017, 1:36 pm

Second recommendation GSG magazines.  

I am currently running the same batch of (7) GSG magazines in both a Nelson and an early Marvel.  The Marvel doesn't lock back with them but it sure shoots great!

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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by LenV on 12/29/2017, 3:19 pm

Use the oil Nelson recommends that might help. He suggested ProGold MFR7. Super light weight and it needs to be in this cold weather. I also had to give up on the Tac22 as it got colder. The CCISV was still working.

Len
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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by Tim:H11 on 12/29/2017, 4:06 pm

Bullseye_Stan wrote:Greetings,

I'm looking to try some other magazines in my Nelson conversion before going down the recoil spring tuning journey.  I get an occasional misfeed, which could be magazine related (using CCI SV and Norma T-22).  Has anyone used the ProMags (plastic .22lr conversion magazines) in their Nelson?  If so, did they work OK.  I've read about them working well in Marvel conversions (which, I suppose is the same) but since the Nelson has a lock-back on the last round, I'm not certain they will work with that feature.

Stan

For comparison and food for thought: I use a Nelson 22 Conversion Unit with the stock magazines. I have a dedicated frame - a former Springfield Armory Range Officer 45ACP. In it I use a 20 pound hammer spring and a I have two recoil springs. One is the factory nine pound recoil spring for bulk 22 ammo, high velocity, what ever I happen to shoot in practice. The other recoil spring is an eight pound spring for the standard velocity or slightly slower stuff or match ammo that I might use in matches. I have no issues with either set up. 

This time of year I find many 22 rimfire semi automatics to be finicky in the cold. Some are better than others but still, you might have some issues due to temperature or wether.

My first recommendation is to try different oils or lubricants said to work well in this sort of situation. 

My second recommendation is dependent on the frame. Some frames require an after market high magazine catch from what I've heard. I did not experience this - I know little of it. Perhaps it would run better if the magazine catch was in a position to allow the magazine to sit higher? I don't know - it's just a suggestion to investigate. 

Bottom line from me: The Nelson magazine work for me and work very well. I would look into something else first before investing in a bunch of other magazines. A magazine catch might be cheaper than two or three new magazines. Or maybe the spring would be a cheaper fix too. Or maybe the wether isn't good for the gun right now. Things to think on and investigate. Good luck.
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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by JKR on 12/29/2017, 4:32 pm

I agree. I've had two Nelsons now and both worked perfectly with the mags that came with the units. Mine started to balk a little when it got cold. That's when I switched to the lighter mainspring. I was using a 20# previous to that. I shoot from the window of my workshop. It's often below zero here when I'm shooting so the pistol gets pretty cold, not to mention my hand!

Jim

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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by jglenn21 on 12/29/2017, 5:15 pm

the ProGold MFR7 is the old Bob Marvel oil he marketed for a number of years... It's really good stuff.. I believe it originally was Machine gun oil.

nothing fancy but it really works well.
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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by rreid on 12/29/2017, 10:51 pm

Bullseye_Stan wrote:Greetings,

I'm looking to try some other magazines in my Nelson conversion before going down the recoil spring tuning journey.  I get an occasional misfeed, which could be magazine related (using CCI SV and Norma T-22).  Has anyone used the ProMags (plastic .22lr conversion magazines) in their Nelson?  If so, did they work OK.  I've read about them working well in Marvel conversions (which, I suppose is the same) but since the Nelson has a lock-back on the last round, I'm not certain they will work with that feature.

Stan
When you say "occasional misfeed," what specifically do you mean?  Is the slide not picking up the next round, bullet jamming into the top of the chamber?  Is it always the same round, ie, the 2nd or the last one?  If you haven't called Larry Nelson, you should do that before you buy different magazines. He spent about 45 minutes on the phone with me, going over things that could have been causing the issue I was having with mine. I got mine sorted out using Larry's advice.
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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 12/30/2017, 7:41 am

The chamber is empty on a random basis.  It doesn't pick up the next round. This appears to happen when using lower velocity ammo.  I think there is probably not enough slide movement to pickup the next round from the magazine. I've ordered the ProGold MFR7 lubricant and will install the 17 lb IMSI mainspring then test that out.  I'll probably get the GSG metal magazines too (as a spend thrift), but not try them out until I've made the spring and lubricant changes.   I did talk to Larry about this situation and the idea at the time was to make sure the recoil spring guide rod was tight. So, I've got several things to work out.  Thanks folks for the ideas.

p.s. I've still got about 2500 rounds of Remington Standard Velocity ammo from 1994, which is 100% reliable.  I recently bought a case of Norma T-22 (foolishly), and want to make that work.  Also, CCI SV is accurate enough for my needs (25 yd. indoor) if it will cycle reliably.  Agulia pistol match (which I have a brick) won't cycle reliably either.

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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by jglenn21 on 12/30/2017, 9:18 am

I run a lot of the Aqulia pistol match in my nelson..  I run the 8 lb recoil spring and a 19 lb mainspring.  I also run the marvel oil and a touch of Tw 25.  Makes a difference.. polish up the recoil spring rod. You will like the Aqulia if you can make it run
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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by dronning on 12/30/2017, 9:49 am

Bullseye_Stan wrote:The chamber is empty on a random basis.  It doesn't pick up the next round. This appears to happen when using lower velocity ammo.  I think there is probably not enough slide movement to pickup the next round from the magazine. 
Bingo, you are right it appears the slide is short stroking.  You are probably right at that fine line where an occasional limp wrist is enough to cause it to short stroke.

Fixes (beside not limp wristing it) include, lighter recoil or mainsprings, larger radius firing pin stop (if there is a small radius one installed), lighter oil, clean it, stay away from the lower velocity ammo (CCI SV should be fine).

I'd try all of that before wasting money on magazines.

- Dave
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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by rreid on 12/30/2017, 2:23 pm

dronning wrote:
Bullseye_Stan wrote:The chamber is empty on a random basis.  It doesn't pick up the next round. This appears to happen when using lower velocity ammo.  I think there is probably not enough slide movement to pickup the next round from the magazine. 
Bingo, you are right it appears the slide is short stroking.  You are probably right at that fine line where an occasional limp wrist is enough to cause it to short stroke.

Fixes (beside not limp wristing it) include, lighter recoil or mainsprings, larger radius firing pin stop (if there is a small radius one installed), lighter oil, clean it, stay away from the lower velocity ammo (CCI SV should be fine).

I'd try all of that before wasting money on magazines.

- Dave
I would agree with Dave. Also check to make sure the slide is not rubbing anywhere on the frame where it shouldn't be. The dustcover area and the 45 ejector would be where I would look first. If the magazine is making contact with the 22 conversion ejector, it will bend up slightly and rub on the bottom of the slide, causing the problem you described.
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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by dronning on 12/30/2017, 2:43 pm

rreid wrote:I would agree with Dave. Also check to make sure the slide is not rubbing anywhere on the frame where it shouldn't be. The dustcover area and the 45 ejector would be where I would look first. If the magazine is making contact with the 22 conversion ejector, it will bend up slightly and rub on the bottom of the slide, causing the problem you described.
+1
I forgot about this, I had an optic mount rubbing on the slide of my Marvel, didn't figure it out until I replaced the dot.  I had maybe 1 feed issue every other match, after I filed the mount a little I never had a feeding issue again.
- Dave
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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by jglenn21 on 12/30/2017, 5:46 pm

also had Dave's issue on my old Marvel
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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 1/22/2018, 8:48 am

To follow up on my previous post:  I got my conversion working OK after fitting the hammer on my lower to my Nelson slide.  I used some Sharpie ink and found that only one side of the hammer was contacting the slide.  A couple of hours with a marker and swiss file resulted in full uniform hammer contact with the slide.  The result was reduced force needed to cock the hammer with the slide; now all my standard velocity ammunition functions - CCI SV, Aguila pistol match and Norma T22/Match.  Before this bit of modification to the hammer, none of that ammunition would cycle the slide.

Also, I bought (couldn't help it) two of the GSG conversion magazines.  One magazine fit fine, the other would hang on the slide catch and not insert.  Both seemed to feed OK.  I was a bit disappointed in the GSG magazines, they seem to be made from a zinc pot metal with a plastic base and follower.  I'm used to S&W magazines which are sheet metal, with a plastic follower, and cost about the same.  I'll stick with the Nelson plastic magazines.  One thing which some may like about the GSG magazines is they are considerably heavier than a standard 45 or Nelson plastic magazine.  They allow the slide to lock back on the last round and are marked 'made in Germany'.

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Re: ProMag magazines for Nelson Conversion

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