Why no Desert Eagle in 45ACP?

by Slartybartfast Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:06 pm

Would the Desert Eagle design and operation be a negative or positive for 45ACP target shooting?
Is the lack of a 45 option because the gas piston system need magnum cartridges to operate reliably? Or is it just because the DE image is for magnums?

by Boxturtle Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:44 pm

The only one I ever shot had a terrible trigger and was not very accurate. It was very big and very heavy. I saw no qualities that would recommend the gun as a target arm.

by zanemoseley Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:50 pm

I would leave it for the movie sets, no redeeming qualities I can see.

by Jblaw Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:48 pm

Magnum Research makes a 1911 in .45. It's the standard design 1911 labeled "Desert Eagle." Not that like that wonky Desert Eagle 44 and 50 pistol.

http://www.magnumresearch.com/Firearms/Magnum-Research-Desert-Eagle-1911-G-Model.asp

by john bickar Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:33 pm

Strap them kids in, give 'em a
little bit o' Benadryl and a
Cherry Coke, we're going to
Oklahoma for the
family reunion...

(Sorry, that's the first thing that comes to mind when someone mentions "Desert Eagle")

by JKR Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:28 am

Yep. That's "one great big ole pistol" ! Give my regards to uncle Slayton.

by Slartybartfast Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:33 am

Boxturtle wrote:The only one I ever shot had a terrible trigger and was not very accurate. It was very big and very heavy. I saw no qualities that would recommend the gun as a target arm.

I was wondering more in general terms if a good target pistol could be built around the fixed barrel and gas piston design.

by CrankyThunder Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:44 am

john bickar wrote:Strap them kids in, give 'em a
little bit o' Benadryl and a
Cherry Coke, we're going to
Oklahoma for the
family reunion...

(Sorry, that's the first thing that comes to mind when someone mentions "Desert Eagle")

"A bad ass pistol made by.....
Bad Ass Hebrews"

Love that song! Chocktaw Bingo

by Boxturtle Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:07 am

Fixed barrel is a very desirable trait, and one that is often incorporated in target guns. I have several 22 LR pistols, Ruger Mk II, S&W M41, Beretta 76W, all using fixed barrels. Fixed barrels are also found in centerfire target pistols, such as the Walther GSP.

Gas operation is often used in the operation of guns firing higher pressure ammunition. The M1911 has been modified into a gas-operated gun (more accurately, gas dampened):

http://www.ncggasgun.com/

Gas operation tends to be bulky. The additional operations are not needed in bullseye guns, which are adequately served by recoil operation.

I know of no reason why a successful gas-operated bullseye target pistol couldn't be built, but I'm also unaware of any compelling reason to do so. Other target sports that use higher-powered ammunition might find advantage in gas operated handguns.

by SmokinNJokin Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:38 am

The NC website claims their gas 1911 shoots 1" groups @ 50yds with all shots touching. Does anyone on the forum have one?

by **Wobbley** Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:49 am

One of the fundamental reasons 90% of the 45s on the line are 1911s is that the DCM then CMP had “Service Pistol” matches requiring the use of a 1911. So we learned how to make them shoot yet still look like a 1911.

That said, fixed barrel and rotating barrel pistols in 45 as well as gas “influenced” (delaying or operated) pistols have been made and marketed. None have caught on. Savage was a finalist with a rotating barrel semi- blowback pistol for the US Army trials in 1907. It was more than adequately accurate. But lost out due to stoppages and parts breakage. HiPoint make a blowback fixed barrel 45. The slide is massive and the frame is plastic to keep the weight down. From a rest, it’s accurate but is brutal to fire. could a gun be made that is gas operated fixed barrel and an accurate target pistol? Sure, and H&K had a prototype P7 in 45. But it never went very far as the military and police overwhelmingly favor 9mm. Put a frame mounted dot and I bet it would shoot very well.

As always, YMMV.

by Aprilian Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:55 am

SmokinNJokin wrote:The NC website claims their gas 1911 shoots 1" groups @ 50yds with all shots touching. Does anyone on the forum have one?

website hasn't been updated in 13 years Shocked

by SmokinNJokin Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:11 pm

Thats too bad, looks like exactly what a bullseye shooter would want, fixed barrel .45 with virtually no wear. I wonder if they had reliability issues or just never caught on or what.

by Slartybartfast Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:07 pm

Wobbley wrote:One of the fundamental reasons 90% of the 45s on the line are 1911s is that the DCM then CMP had “Service Pistol” matches requiring the use of a 1911. So we learned how to make them shoot yet still look like a 1911.

That's my understanding. And pretty much what I wrote in the thread about the superb Wilson Bullseye match pistol.
I guess tradition will hold back other contenders for a long time, but when I do come across actions and triggers and the like that I'm unfamiliar with I wonder what plusses and minuses they could have to build a purpose built bullseye gun.
Without the tradition of 1911s being required, what might the evolution of bullseye 45s have been?

by Slartybartfast Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:13 pm

The Savage sure looks like an interesting design. Incredible picture of flames coming out all over:
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/early-automatic-pistols/savage-45/

by **Wobbley** Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:33 pm

Slartybartfast wrote:
I guess tradition will hold back other contenders for a long time, but when I do come across actions and triggers and the like that I'm unfamiliar with I wonder what plusses and minuses they could have to build a purpose built bullseye gun.
Without the tradition of 1911s being required, what might the evolution of bullseye 45s have been?

Not so much tradition as economics. There’s the Pardini and the Tanfoglio but even without the tradition it’s a hard niche to service even in non-Bullseye games. S&W tried with the 745, Glock has a 45, Sig-Sauer has a 45, maybe a few others. But few have been successful even denting the 1911’s dominance in pistol shooting. Everybody and their dog know how to make a 1911 shoot, the others, not so much.

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