Swaged vs. Cast....

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Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by markgrabowski on 1/16/2018, 8:00 pm

Trying to up my I.Q. on B.E. shooting.... curious what's the functional difference between the two bullet types?

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by james r chapman on 1/16/2018, 8:06 pm

Swaged is softer. Pressed under pressure. Generally void free.
Cast is harder molten lead poured into a mold, then sized and lubes in a die.
Both are good.
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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by NuJudge on 1/17/2018, 4:28 am

Swaged are generally more uniform in weight and weight distribution.  Whenever you cast liquid metal, you are usually going to end up with some voids, because most metals shrink on freezing.  There are some weird aspects to Lead metallurgy, but the alloys we work with shrink on freezing.  I spent a lot of time in college studying the effects of gating and risers on where voids occurred and did not occur.  Additionally, you will have some microporosity if the metal shrinks on freezing.  If the voids and other porosity are on the center line of the bullet or evenly distributed, they should not have much effect on trajectory, but if they are eccentric, expect a flyer.

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by USSR on 1/17/2018, 5:52 am

james r chapman wrote:Swaged is softer.

Not necessarily, Jim.   I cast my wadcutters using an alloy softer than commercial swaged bullets.   That's the beauty of casting your own.

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by james r chapman on 1/17/2018, 7:06 am

I make swaged lead bullets for my paper patched .40-82 Marlin rifle from pure lead.
Beat that Russki!
Lol
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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by USSR on 1/17/2018, 7:50 am

james r chapman wrote:I make swaged lead bullets for my paper patched .40-82 Marlin rifle from pure lead.
Beat that Russki!
Lol

Russki?   Jim, I'm not Russian.

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by james r chapman on 1/17/2018, 8:47 am

No but USSR was!

Joke haha...
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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by USSR on 1/17/2018, 9:09 am

Unlimited Shooting Sports Resources.

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by james r chapman on 1/17/2018, 9:19 am

What a coincidence.
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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by robert84010 on 1/17/2018, 9:25 am

and I thought the collusion was happening right here to get our shooting "secrets"

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by USSR on 1/17/2018, 10:07 am

All I can say is, I'm a "stable genius". Smile

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by Aprilian on 1/17/2018, 10:57 am

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by Wobbley on 1/17/2018, 11:41 am



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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by Multiracer on 1/17/2018, 12:30 pm

jocolor

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by USSR on 1/17/2018, 3:59 pm

I guess when I figured out that "hard cast" wasn't the way to go. Laughing

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by Aprilian on 1/17/2018, 4:26 pm

Don, you need to go up a tenth of a grain or so - then those soft bullets will go through the cardboard backer.   


lol!
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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by USSR on 1/17/2018, 4:57 pm

Aprilian wrote:Don, you need to go up a tenth of a grain or so - then those soft bullets will go through the cardboard backer.   


lol!
Ew, now THAT'S a cheap shot. Shocked

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by Aprilian on 1/17/2018, 5:04 pm

Meant as a joke - as in the bullets were so soft that the ones in your photo were deformed by a lowly cardboard backer.

Sorry if my dry humor struck you the wrong way, unintended.
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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by james r chapman on 1/17/2018, 5:26 pm

We all git it!
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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by USSR on 1/17/2018, 5:29 pm

Aprilian wrote:Meant as a joke - as in the bullets were so soft that the ones in your photo were deformed by a lowly cardboard backer.

Sorry if my dry humor struck you the wrong way, unintended.

No, I got it.   Good one.

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by noylj on 1/18/2018, 3:05 am

Tired of always hearing that swaged bullets were almost pure lead, I decided to contact the bullet companies I know that made swaged lead bullets.
Note: all my casting was with 10-13 BHN for everything, including hot .44 Rem Mag. When I started shooting rifles at over 1800 fps, I just used a gas check and didn’t change alloy.
 
Magnus uses 97/3 alloy, for BHN 11.
 
Precision Bullets uses 92/6/2 and reports the bore-riding surfaces are 13-14 BHN. They also restrike after the coating process.
 
Hornady reports 95/5, for 13 BHN.
 
Zero uses 97/3, also, for BHN of 11
 
Speer reports it is proprietary, and they “have a max velocity of 1100 fps.”
PS: I have exceeded that number with the coated Speer swaged bullets in hot .38 Super loads.

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by USSR on 1/18/2018, 5:36 am

FWIW, my cast hollowpoints and HBWC's are about a BHN of 8.

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by james r chapman on 1/18/2018, 7:00 am

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.rotometals.com/lyman-2-bullet-metal-5-pounds-90-lead-5-tin-5-antimony/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjdjMDbxuHYAhVN3WMKHYVOBq0QFggyMAA&usg=AOvVaw0QevOciALY3HWaWnSDaDPi

Our Lyman #2 alloy (90% Lead, 5% Tin, 5% Antimony) comes in an ingot that measures approximately 8-3/4" by 1" x 2" and weighs approximately 5 lbs. (+/-.25) on in small nuggets that add to the cost but are more valuable. The Brinell Hardness of this Lyman 2 alloy is about ~ 16.
Linotype
This very hard alloy was designed to completely fill the molds used in the printing process prior to the development of computerized typesetting in the late 20th century. It is a bit hard for silhouette shooting or hunting bullets, as it tends to shatter when hitting metal plates or heavy bones. It is very good for higher velocity rifle bullets when target shooting. Often used as a basis for blending special alloys that require a higher percentage of antimony. If you have a good local source of pure lead, blend it 1 to 1 with Linotype alloy to produce Hardball alloy. The Brinell Hardness of this Linotype alloy is about 22.
Good info on why swaged bullets
https://nielsenspecialtyammo.com/pages/nielsen-specialty-ammo-pellets-vs-cast-bullets
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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

Post by USSR on 1/18/2018, 7:50 am

james r chapman wrote:Often used as a basis for blending special alloys that require a higher percentage of antimony.

Yep, I use linotype for my primary source of antimony.   And not just for high antimony alloys.   9# of pure, 1# of linotype, and 0.5# of 50/50 solder makes a great .45 ACP alloy.

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Re: Swaged vs. Cast....

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