Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

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Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by MarkOue on 1/27/2018, 8:55 am

Most people reading this forum are advanced competitive shooters some of whom may not find this interesting.  I think I’m in the bottom of the advance group but that could be argued against.  Nevertheless I think most here will enjoy this.  Regardless of our ability many competed with a Ruger in our past.  I have a Mark II which although overshadowed by a Pardini SP, and Nelson and Marvel 1911 conversions, I have no intention of selling.  Why would I?  It’s a great pistol! 
 
This week at the SHOT show I had lunch with a former colleague Brandon Trevino who a few years ago to become the new product manager for Ruger semi auto pistols.  Being a former member of the National Military Academy’s (West Point) pistol team Brandon knows something about pistol competition.   
 
Presently Ruger offers what are called Competition models of the Mark IV and 1911 pistols.  Frankly, their triggers feel like squeezing a wet noodle.  Very shortly however Ruger will offer a true competition Mark IV pistol.  Hopefully it will leave the factory with a crisp, adjustable trigger.  Further they will offer a 1911 that will be closer to what we desire for a competition gun.   This won’t come fast as the Mark IV super Comp (my name), but it will come.   
 
Ruger must be serious about competition since they signed a many time national champion to shoot for them.  Doug Koenig of Bianchi Cup fame is now a Ruger shooter. 
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/15/doug-koenig-to-lead-newly-launched-team-ruger/
Doug stated in the above article, "I am thrilled to join Team Ruger and partner with such an iconic brand in our industry," said Koenig. "Ruger's depth and breadth of products is a perfect fit for both my competitive shooting and hunting endeavors."
 
Ruger’s plan is to offer a pistol just as Doug Koenig will shoot.  Will that be a 1911?  Whatever model it is it will include all the internal parts that Doug selects.  Obviously, Doug’s gun will of course have the finest gunsmithing.  How close will the new Ruger be to a real competition ready gun?   Probably better than most of use started with.  The improvements to Doug's action pistol will bleed over into a bullseye 1911, I hope.  It would be great if they would have Doug compete in at least the CMP matches at  Camp Perry.  
 
Personally, I hope that Ruger will sponsor teams and also something like the CMP Glock match.  I also suggested they have a booth on Commercial Row.
 
What does the largest gun maker in America sponsoring an action shooter and offering what will mid-level competition guns mean for us shooters who demand a sub-2” 50 yard gun?   More entry-level shooters of course! 
 

Other opinions may of course differ from mine.


Last edited by MarkOue on 1/27/2018, 2:30 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by JKR on 1/27/2018, 9:31 am

I can remember one other time when Ruger dabbled in the world of competitive shooting. In the early 90's they supplied rifles to the US Palma team for the world championship Palma match, in I believe it was, New Zealand. 

To their credit they made a nice rendition of the M-77 rifle but I don't think they had a good understanding of the precision required of a Palma rifle. They barreled the rifles with Green Mountain barrels. Upon receiving and testing the rifles, they just didn't cut it. In the end I believe only one of those rifles went to the match. The other team members took their personal rifles. We lost the match to England. I often wonder how many of those Ruger Palma rifles a floating around out there. I would think they'd be a good collectors piece now. 

It would be absolutely great to see them take a shot at a truly competition grade pistol. It would be great for our sport if a new shooter could buy a reasonably priced pistol that didn't need a ton of work to start competing. I think Springfield has accomplished this with their RO line. Now we need a good 22. 

Jim

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by james r chapman on 1/27/2018, 9:31 am

Good news!
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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by Chris Miceli on 1/27/2018, 10:52 am

MarkOue wrote:Most people reading this forum are advanced competitive shooters some of whom may not find this interesting.  I think I’m in the bottom of the advance group but that could be argued against.  Nevertheless I think most here will enjoy this.  Regardless of our ability many competed with a Ruger in our past.  I have a Mark II which although overshadowed by a Pardini SP, and Nelson and Marvel 1911 conversions, I have no intention of selling.  Why would I?  It’s a great pistol! 
 
This week at the SHOT show I had lunch with a former colleague Brandon Trevino who moved a few years ago to become the new product manager for Ruger semi auto pistols.  Being a former member of the National Military Academy’s (West Point) pistol team Brandon knows something about pistol competition.   
 
Presently Ruger offers what are called Competition models of the Mark IV and 1911 pistols.  Frankly, their triggers feel like squeezing a wet noodle.  Very shortly however Ruger will offer a true competition Mark IV pistol.  Hopefully it will leave the factory with a crisp, adjustable trigger.  Further they will offer a 1911 that will be closer to what we desire for a competition gun.   This won’t come fast as the Mark IV super Comp (my name), but it will come.   
 
Ruger must be serious about competition since they signed a many time national champion to shoot for them.  Doug Koenig of Bianchi Cup fame is now a Ruger shooter. 
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/15/doug-koenig-to-lead-newly-launched-team-ruger/
Doug stated in the above article, "I am thrilled to join Team Ruger and partner with such an iconic brand in our industry," said Koenig. "Ruger's depth and breadth of products is a perfect fit for both my competitive shooting and hunting endeavors."
 
Ruger’s plan is to offer a pistol just as Doug Koenig will shoot.  Will that be a 1911?  Whatever model it is it will include all the internal parts that Doug selects.  Obviously, Doug’s gun will of course have the finest gunsmithing.  How close will the new Ruger be to a real competition ready gun?   Probably better than most of use started with.  The improvements to Doug's action pistol will bleed over into a bullseye 1911, I hope.  It would be great if they would have Doug compete in at least the CMP matches.  
 
Personally, I hope that Ruger will sponsor teams and also something like the CMP Glock match.  I also suggested they have a booth on Commercial Row.
 
What does the largest gun maker in America sponsoring an action shooter and offering what will mid-level competition guns mean for us shooters who demand a sub-2” 50 yard gun?   More entry-level shooters of course! 
 

Other opinions may of course differ from mine.

good for ruger.... to bad they don't have a bullseye team.
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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by MarkOue on 1/27/2018, 11:15 am

Chris Miceli wrote:good for ruger.... to bad they don't have a bullseye team.

Chris,

One never knows what will be...

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by Jon Eulette on 1/27/2018, 12:57 pm

I've always loved Ruger MK pistols. When done right they are competitive with the best pistols. My first BE 22 was a Ruger MKII Gov't. PB 889 with it in my first year or so of shooting BE. Broke 2650 with it for the first time.
Jon
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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by 30harry on 1/27/2018, 3:57 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:I've always loved Ruger MK pistols. When done right they are competitive with the best pistols. My first BE 22 was a Ruger MKII Gov't. PB 889 with it in my first year or so of shooting BE. Broke 2650 with it for the first time.
Jon
I don't think you would be TOO far off from the truth by just saying "everybodys first BE 22 was a Ruger".  Smile  Either MKI or MKII.  Mine was a MK I which I still have to this day.

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by Mike38 on 1/27/2018, 4:17 pm

While Ruger is at it..... They need to rework their .22 Mk series pistol into one that is chambered for .32. Over bore the bull barrel, change the bolt face, recoil spring, different magazine, bingo, an entry level centerfire bullseye pistol. I've actually emailed Ruger twice with such a suggestion years ago. Never did get a reply.
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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by Doug Tiedt on 1/27/2018, 4:24 pm

30harry wrote:
Jon Eulette wrote:I've always loved Ruger MK pistols. When done right they are competitive with the best pistols. My first BE 22 was a Ruger MKII Gov't. PB 889 with it in my first year or so of shooting BE. Broke 2650 with it for the first time.
Jon
I don't think you would be TOO far off from the truth by just saying "everybodys first BE 22 was a Ruger".  Smile  Either MKI or MKII.  Mine was a MK I which I still have to this day.

What's a ruger?  I've might have shot 5 rounds through a friends ruger mkII once...
In fairness, you did say not "too far" from the truth... so I guess that makes me the exception proving the rule.

Doug

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by Amati on 1/27/2018, 4:28 pm

The article in the link explains in detail why many people feel no love for Bill Ruger's company.

http://www.firearmscoalition.org/index.php/blogs-mainmenu-63/chriss-blog-mainmenu-87/645-bill-rugers-magazine-ban

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by Amati on 1/27/2018, 4:42 pm

Mike38 wrote:....  I've actually emailed Ruger twice with such a suggestion years ago. Never did get a reply.

Many companies' legal departments have policies not to get entangled in exchanges such as your suggestion in order to protect against potential infringements etc.

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by lyman1903 on 1/27/2018, 5:55 pm

Mike38 wrote:While Ruger is at it..... They need to rework their .22 Mk series pistol into one that is chambered for .32. Over bore the bull barrel, change the bolt face, recoil spring, different magazine, bingo, an entry level centerfire bullseye pistol. I've actually emailed Ruger twice with such a suggestion years ago. Never did get a reply.

someone did this (not a factory conversion) years ago,

not sure how many were made (but guessing not a lot)

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by atrfod on 1/27/2018, 6:10 pm

lyman1903 wrote:
Mike38 wrote:While Ruger is at it..... They need to rework their .22 Mk series pistol into one that is chambered for .32. Over bore the bull barrel, change the bolt face, recoil spring, different magazine, bingo, an entry level centerfire bullseye pistol. I've actually emailed Ruger twice with such a suggestion years ago. Never did get a reply.

someone did this (not a factory conversion) years ago,

not sure how many were made (but guessing not a lot)

I believe it was Austin Behlert that did those.That must have taken some doing to get .32 S&W WCs to work.I'm thinking .32 ACP might have been easier.-Mike

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by lyman1903 on 1/27/2018, 7:22 pm

atrfod wrote:
lyman1903 wrote:
Mike38 wrote:While Ruger is at it..... They need to rework their .22 Mk series pistol into one that is chambered for .32. Over bore the bull barrel, change the bolt face, recoil spring, different magazine, bingo, an entry level centerfire bullseye pistol. I've actually emailed Ruger twice with such a suggestion years ago. Never did get a reply.

someone did this (not a factory conversion) years ago,

not sure how many were made (but guessing not a lot)

I believe it was Austin Behlert that did those.That must have taken some doing to get .32 S&W WCs to work.I'm thinking .32 ACP might have been easier.-Mike

I think you are right but my google fu is not working tonight,

remember a thread on maybe rimfire central(??) that had some pics,

neat conversion,  would not mind having one

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by Ed Hall on 1/27/2018, 10:32 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:I've always loved Ruger MK pistols. When done right they are competitive with the best pistols. My first BE 22 was a Ruger MKII Gov't. PB 889 with it in my first year or so of shooting BE. Broke 2650 with it for the first time.
Jon
I only ever got my Ruger MK II to 880 before my Team Captain talked me into trying a Team Hammerli 215.  Back-to-back 888 left me staying with the Hammerli for a bit...

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by john bickar on 1/27/2018, 11:45 pm

Ed Hall wrote:
Jon Eulette wrote:I've always loved Ruger MK pistols. When done right they are competitive with the best pistols. My first BE 22 was a Ruger MKII Gov't. PB 889 with it in my first year or so of shooting BE. Broke 2650 with it for the first time.
Jon
I only ever got my Ruger MK II to 880 before my Team Captain talked me into trying a Team Hammerli 215.  Back-to-back 888 left me staying with the Hammerli for a bit...

Ed,

888 is a good score, but you failed to mention your X-count. It couldn't have been higher than 88.

Thus I'm obligated to remind you to "Get yer X-count up!" Wink
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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by LenV on 1/28/2018, 12:44 am

A miss and an 8. It took awhile to work a miss into my math. Kept coming up with 87 max.  Smile
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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by Ed Hall on 1/28/2018, 9:40 am

john bickar wrote:
Ed,

888 is a good score, but you failed to mention your X-count. It couldn't have been higher than 88.

Thus I'm obligated to remind you to "Get yer X-count up!" Wink
Sorry John,

The repetitiveness of the 888 was easier to remember than the two different X-counts.  And, I was shooting a lot of Xs in those days, once in a while on purpose.  Kind of like I remember a match at Marine Corps Base Quantico years ago, where three competitors all shot 895.  I don't remember their Xs, either, but, none of the three was me...Smile

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by Blackbird on 1/28/2018, 12:29 pm

Amati wrote:The article in the link explains in detail why many people feel no love for Bill Ruger's company.

http://www.firearmscoalition.org/index.php/blogs-mainmenu-63/chriss-blog-mainmenu-87/645-bill-rugers-magazine-ban


Colt got entangled in the "smart gun" controversy. ( https://www.npr.org/2016/04/07/473416699/how-an-idea-to-develop-a-safer-smart-gun-backfired )
S&W got involved in the 1994 Clinton "AW" ban ( https://clintonwhitehouse4.archives.gov/textonly/WH/New/html/20000317_2.html )

Bill Ruger and his son made firearms that suited their "responsible sportsman" corporate statement and in the last years of his life, Bill Sr., wasn't exactly lucid. Their insistence on making hunting rifles, double guns, revolvers, etc. at that time wasn't a great long term business decision. Hunting was and still is on the decline in North America and preferences in firearms have changed. Gone are the Red/Gold Label double guns, the single shot #1 rifle, and some others. The company now makes small, inexpensive concealable pistols, AR pattern rifles, and "tactical" styled bolt rifles. Bill Sr. would certainly not approve. 

A new generation of shooters is out there who do not directly recall the 1994 AWB and don't know Bill Ruger [Sr or Jr].

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by Blackbird on 1/28/2018, 12:50 pm

JKR wrote:I can remember one other time when Ruger dabbled in the world of competitive shooting. In the early 90's they supplied rifles to the US Palma team for the world championship Palma match, in I believe it was, New Zealand. 

To their credit they made a nice rendition of the M-77 rifle but I don't think they had a good understanding of the precision required of a Palma rifle. They barreled the rifles with Green Mountain barrels. Upon receiving and testing the rifles, they just didn't cut it. In the end I believe only one of those rifles went to the match. The other team members took their personal rifles. We lost the match to England. I often wonder how many of those Ruger Palma rifles a floating around out there. I would think they'd be a good collectors piece now. 

...

Jim


The Ruger Palma rifles were made for the 1992 match at the NRA Whittington Center [match #24]. The New Zealand match was shot in 1995. One of these M77 rifles was at a Phoenix gun store back in the 1990s, in the possession of Richard 'Dick' Anthony who shot for the US team. He died of cancer shortly thereafter the 1995 NZ match and I have no idea what ever became of it.

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by JKR on 1/28/2018, 2:58 pm

Blackbird,

Thanks for setting the dates and places straight for me. I shot in Phoenix a few times between 90 and 94. I met Dick Anthony. I remember him using one of the rare M-70 single shot actions on his Palma rifle. I never did get to see one of the Ruger rifles but heard lots about them from Earl Leibatrau, a team member from Wi.

Jim

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by Saladman on 1/28/2018, 4:23 pm

Amati wrote:The article in the link explains in detail why many people feel no love for Bill Ruger's company.

http://www.firearmscoalition.org/index.php/blogs-mainmenu-63/chriss-blog-mainmenu-87/645-bill-rugers-magazine-ban
Spoiler:
Bill Ruger is dead.  Not mention that the company is effectively under different management from then.  They cater well to what the market wants including evil tacticool rifles.  I don't particularly care for their AR-15's, but they make many other good quality products at generally reasonable prices.  It's not really fair to bring this up anymore.  Unlike say... Springfield.  A company that directly worked to screw over the Illinois gun industry.  Those people are still alive and working, having issued a non-apology, they keep on keeping on.


To stay on topic, I can't wait to see what Ruger brings out next.   Smile

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by Blackbird on 1/28/2018, 5:03 pm

Jim,

Dick Anthony did love his Winchesters. 

He was a pretty good gunsmith too. He worked over a standard Springfield M1A for me and it shot as well as a National Match version when I was into Service Rifle. 

He was the prototypical target gun person. Selfless, always willing to help out a novice shooter, he loved talking shooting and the merits of various rifles/gear. He was a heck of a nice guy. 

If you shot at Ben Avery, it has really changed since '94.

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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by rich.tullo on 1/28/2018, 6:39 pm

MKII Government one of the nicest pistols ever made. Factory trigger such and if they price it right a Ruger with an good adjustable weight trigger could sell a lot of units.
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Re: Ruger Enters Competitive Shooting

Post by Mac2 on 1/29/2018, 9:26 am

Hard to couple "accuracy" with "Ruger."  However, a new page might be turning.  The Mark IV is a departure from the safe path.  A Mark IV Lite has the right weight, and sufficient accuracy, to aid in bringing new competitors - well, after fixing the trigger.  
A Commander size 1911 with lightweight frame and slide cut for red-dot-sight would be great for new competitor's CF pistol.  Ruger likes to have bold markings, so set the trigger for bullseye and boldly mark the result: FOR COMPETITION ONLY

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