Name the pistol

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Name the pistol

Post by Slartybartfast on Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:44 pm

What pistol is on the cover of the 2017 Pistol Program & Entry Information brochure?


https://competitions.nra.org/NationalMatches/images/2017PistolProgram.pdf

(and is it just me that finds it odd that there's a 2017 brochure for a 2018 event?)
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Chris Miceli on Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:14 pm

208s/215s with a Madore scope mount.
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by james r chapman on Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:23 pm

Wasn't that last year's??? I don't think this year's is out yet.
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Slartybartfast on Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:29 pm

james r chapman wrote:Wasn't that last year's??? I don't think this year's is out yet.

Yeah, in what I would view as a stoke of incompetence and awful layout, the NRA website confusingly has the dates for 2018 and then the documents for 2017:
http://competitions.nra.org/championship-tournament/national-matches-at-camp-perry-ohio.aspx
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by rebs on Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:09 pm

They are too busy sending out info about including them in your will for after you pass away.

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Re: Name the pistol

Post by CR10X on Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:09 pm

Well, it said right there.... "2017 National Pistol Championship Program"

What's so incompetent about that?

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Re: Name the pistol

Post by robert84010 on Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:22 pm

Slartybartfast wrote:
james r chapman wrote:Wasn't that last year's??? I don't think this year's is out yet.

Yeah, in what I would view as a stoke of incompetence and awful layout, the NRA website confusingly has the dates for 2018 and then the documents for 2017:
http://competitions.nra.org/championship-tournament/national-matches-at-camp-perry-ohio.aspx
What's a "stoke of incompetence". Does misspelling a word while highlighting a non mistake by someone else qualify for that?

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Re: Name the pistol

Post by TexasShooter on Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:34 pm

Rather have a "stoke of incompetence" than a spike of incontinence...

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Re: Name the pistol

Post by james r chapman on Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:29 pm

lol!
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Slartybartfast on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:29 am

Well, I'm not trying to run national competitions and failing to upkeep a rather basic web page.
IMO, the fact that it's so difficult to simply find out when competitions are held is a big contributor to the decline in participation.
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Chris Miceli on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:39 am

Slartybartfast wrote:Well, I'm not trying to run national competitions and failing to upkeep a rather basic web page.
IMO, the fact that it's so difficult to simply find out when competitions are held is a big contributor to the decline in participation.
Huh? Please explain ? How long have you been in the competitive bullseye world ? So I can better weigh your statement.
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Slartybartfast on Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:44 am

Chris Miceli wrote:
Slartybartfast wrote:Well, I'm not trying to run national competitions and failing to upkeep a rather basic web page.
IMO, the fact that it's so difficult to simply find out when competitions are held is a big contributor to the decline in participation.
Huh? Please explain ? How long have you been in the competitive bullseye world ? So I can better weigh your statement.
Can you point me to where I can find competitions properly listed?
If I can't find them, or dates are questionable as they are in this case I can't attend. How does my length of time competing change that?
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Chris Miceli on Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:52 am

You claim their is a decline in competition over what length of time ? That’s why it matters how long you have been doing this.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ssusa_201801/ back few pages of magazine is a link. I’m sure you’re bright enough to figure it out....if not post here and I’ll walk you through it 

http://findnra.nra.org/
Let me know if I need to walk you through it
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by TexasShooter on Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:32 am


You claim their is a decline in competition over what length of time ? That’s why it matters how long you have been doing this.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ssusa_201801/ back few pages of magazine is a link. I’m sure you’re bright enough to figure it out....if not post here and I’ll walk you through it 

http://findnra.nra.org/
Let me know if I need to walk you through it



Gee, I wonder if that kind of condescending attitude has anything to do with the decline in bullseye competition...


Last edited by TexasShooter on Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:52 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Clarity)

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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Slartybartfast on Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:29 am

Look, my attitude is born of frustration.
Maybe competition is healthy where you are. But on this site and others the continuous complaint is that precision bullseye shooting is suffering from declining participation. Camp Perry is undoubtedly super well attended compared to the Canadian National Matches, which were lamented as being low attendance in the annual report from last year that I stumbled on through searches.
The NRA site linked for example has Camp Perry 2018 followed by the calendar and program for 2017. But the calendar actually seems to be relevant to 2018. The Provincial organisation I'm ostensibly a member of has listings for all of last years competitions still and nothing for 2018. Neighbouring provincial sites have some listings, but it takes visiting a half dozen other sites and downloading ridiculous numbers of documents just to find out what competitions are where (and after being initially optimistic found the ones that I thought I had identified were in fact rifle only).
My reaction might have used an over the top descriptor. But with your links you seem to admit that the NRA website is difficult to use if not useless as a direct source of information. While condescendingly point me to "Find the NRA", I'm not sure how after all the searching around on the competitions pages I'm supposed to have found that page with the not so evident search for tournaments.
Shooting sports USA does seem to have a better listing of the competitions. Being an NRA publication, they're obviously failing to coordinate with the people that maintain the competitions page where the information could be at least as clear, include links for all the various competitions so a novice shooter could find all the relevant information, and link to the shooting sports publication as well.
The development of pistolmatches.com, practiscore.com, the new smallbore association, and others shows that smarter, more motivated, and better skilled people than I have also identified the shortcoming of the various national organisations that you would expeect to fill the roles they are attempting to fill.
So Chris, if you want to be continue being condescending or not, perhaps you could "walk me though" how I attend Camp Perry as a an international participant without having to shoot as a Master. I'm getting quite sick of people both sides of the border, both well meaning and otherwise, telling me I'm not looking in the right place.
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Slartybartfast on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:06 pm

For example:
Search http://findnra.nra.org/ around Burlington VT, I find the Indoor Championships in Tupper Lake.
Search http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ssusa_201801/index.php#/52 for "Indoor". Nothing.
Search https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/10/30/new-2018-nra-national-championship-schedule/ for "Indoor". Nothing.
Search http://pistolmatches.com/ for "Indoor" nothing.
Search using Google for Tupper Lake, NY indoor championship and find a detailed listing on pistolmatches.com. With better information than what is available on FindNRA.

All these people and sites might be very well meaning, but the hurdles and difficulties to find relevant matches for someone new are crazy...
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Rotwang on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:37 pm

Since you asked ...

Join the nra to get a number.  It may not be needed for entry at perry but it should make getting a classification  easier.

You need to get a real classification in something.  Do what it takes to shoot 360 shots in competition ASAP.  That's 360 indoors or 360 outdoors.  You'll need to have the classification before shooting at perry and it will take time for processing.

A sectional match is only 90 and you can only shoot one.  You need some regular matches.  Pistol-competition.nra.org has a listing by state of contacts.

Doing this gets you a classification that can be used at perry.  Then when registration opens you can enter.

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Re: Name the pistol

Post by robert84010 on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:52 pm

Rotwang,
You make an excellent point, a person doesn't have to be a member to shoot a match but does have to be a member to get a classification. That takes time. Finding a temporary classification scorebook is not as easy as it once was. I would recommend Slartybartfast get one and have the match director fill in the scores when you attend a match and use that to prove you are not a master for Perry classification.

I would never defend the NRA competitions website since I do think it can be hard to navigate. I found the calendar for the 2018 Nationals rather easily and was amused that the pistol dates were identical to last year and that is why I posted my response the way I did.

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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Slartybartfast on Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:34 pm

Rotwang wrote:Since you asked ...

Pistol-competition.nra.org has a listing by state of contacts.
Thanks. Really looks like the only way to become competitive is to do a LOT of legwork.

Looked at the first NY state contact. Went to their matches page. They had a 2700 Match Bulletin. For 2016 matches. Before going off the rails, went looking at all the othre links on their page. At least they have an up-to-date calendar page as well. Guess if I want to compete in the US I'll have to look all the NY and VT clubs to find what's close and who has competitions.

And I'm trying not to be bitchy, but WTH can't the findnra tournament results give the same information as the contacts by state list? And why do you have to click through and search on a club website for addresses?


Last edited by Slartybartfast on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Chris Miceli on Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:40 pm

Slartybartfast wrote:For example:
Search http://findnra.nra.org/ around Burlington VT, I find the Indoor Championships in Tupper Lake.
Search http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ssusa_201801/index.php#/52 for "Indoor". Nothing.
Search https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/10/30/new-2018-nra-national-championship-schedule/ for "Indoor". Nothing.
Search http://pistolmatches.com/ for "Indoor" nothing.
Search using Google for Tupper Lake, NY indoor championship and find a detailed listing on pistolmatches.com. With better information than what is available on FindNRA.

All these people and sites might be very well meaning, but the hurdles and difficulties to find relevant matches for someone new are crazy...

yawn...... let me just include a direct link... since bold lettering in a magazine doesn't attract your attention.

https://www.ssusa.org/media/1537753/jan2018_ce.pdf

again if you like, i can give to you step by step instructions.  Want pictures as well? 

Since you were looking in the NY market i recommend you go to this webpage. Has all the matches for the north east part on the US. 

http://www.njpistol.com/
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Murph on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:19 pm

njpistol.com is a great resource to find some matches. Some NY and "up north" matches can be found there, and inculded are the emails to the match directors and most have sign up links. I've been to some in New Hampshire at the military base for open matches, and those are well run and happen several times a year. Those may be close to you and a way to shoot some matches to get classified before going to Camp Perry. Northern NY has some as well. Look up NYSRPA (state champ match organizer).
As far as trying to come over the border and compete, there may not be too many on our side with that advise. I'd try to see if any Canadian shooters could help with that, someone that has traveled to the US for events in the past.

Getting over the border, traveling, and shooting one of the NY monthly matches should be a great way to get started and do an event from A to Z. Come try them out. I've shot many in NY and NH and the shooters are awesome people. Please introduce yourself to me if I am there.

Our sport is fragmented in the organizing. Hopefully it becomes more centralized in the coming years. But don't let that keep you away. These matches are awesome. Find one and get out there. Once you get to a couple, you will see it easy to then find some and get going.

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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Slartybartfast on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:23 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:

yawn...... let me just include a direct link... since bold lettering in a magazine doesn't attract your attention.
Sorry I bore you. But to be blunt, it seems quite obvious you're here to be condescending. I've been addressing the inconsistencies and missing information I've already found in the links you're providing. You then just go point out the same incomplete resources.
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Ed Hall on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:29 pm

Slartybartfast wrote:Thanks. Really looks like the only way to become competitive is to do a LOT of legwork.

Looked at the first NY state contact. Went to their matches page. They had a 2700 Match Bulletin. For 2016 matches...

At least they have an up-to-date calendar page as well. Guess if I want to compete in the US I'll have to look all the NY and VT clubs to find what's close and who has competitions.
I'm the contact for the Indoor Sectional in Tupper Lake.  As stated, it is only a 900 match (90 rounds).  I think you only need an ID from NRA, rather than a membership, but I'm not sure how an id is obtained without membership.  We do normally hand out temporary scorebooks to new shooters, but the Nationals at Camp Perry require a "permanent" classification prior to the match.  This means 360 shots Indoors OR Outdoors - they don't combine for the permanent classification.  Shooting our Indoor 900 and the Outdoor State Match in VT (2700), would not get you permanently classified.  (BTW, the shooter now fills out the temporary scorebook.)

If you shoot our Indoor 900 in Tupper Lake, and can shoot the Indoor State Match (2700) in Binghamton in April, that would get you 360 rounds Indoors, but Binghamton is a long ways south of the border.

The better option, IMO, is to check with the VT Rifle & Pistol Association to see if they are holding an April Match this year and then attending the VT State Match on Memorial Day weekend.  If you can shoot their April and May matches, this would get you two Outdoor 2700s before June and it should generate a permanent NRA classification:

VT State Rifle & Pistol Association Contact Page

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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Slartybartfast on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:33 pm

Murph wrote:Our sport is fragmented in the organizing.  Hopefully it becomes more centralized in the coming years.  

Shane Murphy
Thank you very much Shane. It's not necessarily centralisation that's required, a little cooperation and developing an open framework for sharing information would go a long way.

This isn't the first activity or organisation that I've been involved with where the first thing to be notices is how many people are trying to do the same thing but differently and how many aren't really equipped with the best tools and there's a lack of support.

In one Provincial level group, we first straightened out our own house and built a much better website with the help of real professionals. Cost high 5 figures.

We then went out and offered to first host member groups websites (to remove dependence on other groups and provide a more stable platform than many of the DIY efforts were using), next step was to use the templates and infrastructure to rebuild the member groups websites and provide them the benefit of individualised website using templates while also providing common content to all and access to paid webmasters to ensure maintenance is kept up.

The shared physical hosting isn't necessary for databases of fundamental information to be shared, mirrored, replicated, and used between many sites.

It's the role I would expect the NRA, SFC, NSSF, CSSA, NFA, USAShooting etc to fulfill on their respective sides of the border.
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Re: Name the pistol

Post by Slartybartfast on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:43 pm

Ed Hall wrote:

I'm the contact for the Indoor Sectional in Tupper Lake.  As stated, it is only a 900 match (90 rounds).
Thank you very much Ed. Tupper lake is a bit far afield and the date for the sectional event too close for me to get through all the paperwork required for homeland security to allow my firearms over the border.
You might want to see if you have the same difficulties locating your event on pistolmatches.com that I experienced. IMO, if pistolmatches and practiscore could collaborate they could be a real force in the firearms competition world.
Really this year I might try to find a tournament or two to attempt the travelling with firearms experience. So I'm looking in VT and NY.
Hoping that my similar frustration with finding Canadian tournaments might lead to a competition path here at home.
And/Or I'm going to have to start trying to organise a precision istol group at the range I shoot at.
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