which 1911 to buy

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which 1911 to buy

Post by Precisionjunky on 2/14/2018, 9:13 pm

Doing some research, don't have the money to devote yet but plant to budget 1500 or less for my competition 1911 with no modes needed beyond that cost. Springfield Range officer looks good for the money but will it need additional mods to make it competition worth.. I am not looking to light the world on fire but I want a nice gun. The Kimber gold match II looks nice as well but at a higher price point,  Is it worth it?  Colt Gold Cup National Match.. Also looks like the same as the Kimber  but is it better and will it need additional mods as well. Is there a manufacturer I am missing? Match accuracy is my most important Criteria.  I am also OK with Buying Used.. suggest to your hearts content.

Andy
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by Paul M. on 2/14/2018, 9:26 pm

Probably the Springfield with some upgrades if you are looking for a new gun. I don't know much about the Kimber but I do have one of the new gold cups and to make it a match grade gun would put you over budget. If you don't mind buying used, you could probably do well by waiting until you get a good deal on one that has been fixed up and doesn't have too many miles on it.

Just my two cents, and probably all it's worth!
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by Precisionjunky on 2/14/2018, 9:31 pm

Paul M. wrote:Probably the Springfield with some upgrades if you are looking for a new gun.  I don't know much about the Kimber but I do have one of the new gold cups and to make it a match grade gun would put you over budget.  If you don't mind buying used, you could probably do well by waiting until you get a good deal on one that has been fixed up and doesn't have too many miles on it.

Just my two cents, and probably all it's worth!
Sounds Like good advice.. I was thinking the colts would not need much adjustment.. if that is not the case the Springfield makes sense.

thanks
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by Wobbley on 2/14/2018, 9:44 pm

Buy the Springfield.  All of these pistols in this price range need improvement to be championship level pistols.  But the Springfield is the best platform to start from as the custom pistolsmith has less to contend with.
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by robert84010 on 2/14/2018, 9:50 pm

Have you looked in the for sale section? There is an ad on the first page with 4 custom 1911's for sale. there are also others.

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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by mpolans on 2/14/2018, 9:55 pm

If you’re willing to wait a little and don’t mind used, I’d keep looking on here and on gunbroker.com for a decent gun that’s already been modified to pop up. Something with a match fit barrel and a scope mount. If you can’t wait or want new, I’d get a Springfield Range Officer, and pay a gunsmith to fit a barrel, add a scope mount, and if needed, do a trigger job.

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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by Precisionjunky on 2/14/2018, 10:01 pm

Wobbley wrote:Buy the Springfield.  All of these pistols in this price range need improvement to be championship level pistols.  But the Springfield is the best platform to start from as the custom pistolsmith has less to contend with.
Ok, thanks
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by Precisionjunky on 2/14/2018, 10:03 pm

mpolans wrote:If you’re willing to wait a little and don’t mind used, I’d keep looking on here and on gunbroker.com for a decent gun that’s already been modified to pop up. Something with a match fit barrel and a scope mount. If you can’t wait or want new, I’d get a Springfield Range Officer, and pay a gunsmith to fit a barrel, add a scope mount, and if needed, do a trigger job.

thanks it looks like the Range Officer is in the lead on this query, so far.
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by Precisionjunky on 2/14/2018, 10:06 pm

robert84010 wrote:Have you looked in the for sale section? There is an ad on the first page with 4 custom 1911's for sale. there are also others.
I do have time so I can certainly look at the used Guns
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by LenV on 2/15/2018, 12:16 am

I would buy them all and take them for test drives.  Laughing  But you did mention a 1500.00 budget. There is a Kimber that I would recommend that you didn't mention. Before Kimber started making the Super Target II they made a Limited Edition Kimber Target Match. They only made 1000 of them (serial numbered KTM++++) and everyone of them was ran through their custom shop like the Super Target II. They are series 70 pistols with a Gold Cup style top on the slide. I wouldn't mention it if there wasn't one available. NFI.. Did I mention they are beautiful ?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/747624252         https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2009/7/7/kimber-target-match/



Mine shoots too good and is too pretty to sell. Wink
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by JKR on 2/15/2018, 7:43 am

teg 2658 on commercial row. Pistols by Fred Kart, Joe Chambers, and Jackie Best, all in your price range! What an opportunity for a guy wanting a real bullseye gun!

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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by Precisionjunky on 2/15/2018, 8:04 am

LenV wrote:I would buy them all and take them for test drives.  Laughing  But you did mention a 1500.00 budget. There is a Kimber that I would recommend that you didn't mention. Before Kimber started making the Super Target II they made a Limited Edition Kimber Target Match. They only made 1000 of them (serial numbered KTM++++) and everyone of them was ran through their custom shop like the Super Target II. They are series 70 pistols with a Gold Cup style top on the slide. I wouldn't mention it if there wasn't one available. NFI.. Did I mention they are beautiful ?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/747624252         https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2009/7/7/kimber-target-match/



Mine shoots too good and is too pretty to sell. Wink
what a beautiful gun.. thanks for the suggestion
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by Amati on 2/15/2018, 8:39 am

Colt is selling a Series 70 Gold Cup National Match. Definitely worth a look.

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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by jglenn21 on 2/15/2018, 8:41 am

If you are wanting to compete in BE then i would take JKR  advice and be all over one of the 1911s he mentioned. Buy one and shoot it. Those are all done by quality custom smiths. Pretty is nice but you did mention you wanted a shooter.  Worth a look
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by Jon Eulette on 2/15/2018, 8:56 am

jglenn21 wrote:If you are wanting to compete in BE then i would take JKR  advice and be all over one of the 1911s he mentioned. Buy one and shoot it. Those are all done by quality custom smiths. Pretty is nice but you did mention you wanted a shooter.  Worth a look

+1

Jon
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 2/15/2018, 11:26 am

I went the Springfield Range Officer route.  It's parkerized, which isn't that pretty, and has iron sights.  I started out with a Cylinder & Side reduced sear spring, which actually worked pretty well, and a trigger shoe.  I was tinkering with the lower on my Nelson conversion during the holidays last year and Brownells had a 10% off sale, so I got a C&S (CS0226) light weight drop in match trigger set, which went into the RO.  I like it, even though it doesn't have much roll.  So far, I have ~$1000 into the gun. 

I don't expect to save any money vs buying a wad gun and will probably spend more that $1500.  But, that's the path I took.  Buying a used wad gun is a better value, but this sport isn't about optimizing costs (to me).  The gun shoots 'powder puff' reloads, which I like.  Good luck in your decision, and 'to thine own self be true'.

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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by weber1b on 2/15/2018, 3:24 pm

My wad gun is a Range Officer. I shot it as it came from the factory for a couple of years while I caught up to it's capabilities. Then I had a Kart barrel and bushing fitted and dropped in a KC trigger. I added a rail and a scope but you need those regardless of gun. It shoots better and so do I, but I did not spend all the money right up front. There is another member of my team who shoots a stock range officer with a KC trigger, and shoots expert to master level scores with it.

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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by daflorc on 2/15/2018, 10:35 pm

weber1b wrote:My wad gun is a Range Officer. I shot it as it came from the factory for a couple of years while I caught up to it's capabilities. Then I had a Kart barrel and bushing fitted and dropped in a KC trigger. I added a rail and a scope but you need those regardless of gun. It shoots better and so do I, but I did not spend all the money right up front. There is another member of my team who shoots a stock range officer with a KC trigger, and shoots expert to master level scores with it.
Whose that?

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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by CR10X on 2/16/2018, 5:49 am

If I may offer another option here, and I do make this recommendation consistently.  If you are dead set on getting a 1911, then at least take the time to try our as many options as you can.  But I will put forth the following if you, or anyone, is interested in competing in precision (bullseye) pistol. 

I'm not sure exactly how much you have shot precision pistol, but with the given classification of Marksman and no other information; I would sincerely recommend that the best 1911 for you to get is the one you will get about a year or two from now.

One of the biggest impediments to improvement, performance wise, is dealing with another gun and in particular a .45 1911 while learning the basics of precision pistol.  Determining if you will shoot open sights or dots, pursuing EIC points or just NRA match shooting, etc. will eventually determine the guns and equipment you will transition to for centerfire / .45 first.  

So, I generally recommend getting a good .22, get started shooting and learning, save the funds so you can get a reloader and a 1911 while progressing to Expert or Master scores with the .22.  Generally, my recommendation for the next gun after a .22 is a quality air pistol, then 1911 with reloader, then custom guns when you think you know what you want (and the first guns become backup / second guns) as the commitment, desire and economics allow.  

On the other hand, if you go all in, then get the best you can from a custom gunsmith or a used custom gun from a bullseye shooter.  Then if you decide the game isn't from you, you will recoup more of your money than with a plan factory gun. (But that hurts like heck on the bank account up front.) 

Just my advise from years of observation, but you should do what makes you happy.  

(The question for you (meaning any shooter) is: Will you be happier shooting well, or happier just owning something?  Everyone is different. ) 

CR


Last edited by CR10X on 2/17/2018, 5:24 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Forgot to add about getting a used custom gun.)

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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by james r chapman on 2/16/2018, 8:58 am

Accuracy X 1911 and a Nelson conversion.
You'll look good doing it too!

Lol

What CR says is the struggle I had. Trying to do it all at once without a basic understanding of Precision (Bullseye) Pistol competition.
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by Doug Tiedt on 2/16/2018, 11:08 pm

Andy,

CR10X is one of the wise sages here, and one can do a lot worse than heeding his advice.

But since buying toys is fun...

A few years ago I took this forum's advice and bought a Springfield RO (to replace the
S&W 686 I was using... rapid fire is a pain with revolvers).  I am pretty happy with it
and I've settled on a load it likes.

Recently, I saw a deal on the "commercial row" section for a backup 1911...  I talked to the seller,
and decided to buy it.  Wow.  A real bullseye gun, showing a bit of wear but does it shoot!
Backup!  Hah, this is now my primary 1911 and I sometimes beat my 22 score with it.

I would definitely recommend looking through commercial row.  A number of the sellers are
only looking to finance a new gun, or sadly, a few are leaving the sport.  They seem happy
to have their equipment go to a "new" bullseye shooter in order for him or her to be on their
way to enjoying the sport.  My experiences on commercial row have all been positive, which
is a testament to the great group here.

Doug

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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by Precisionjunky on 2/18/2018, 10:45 pm

CR10X wrote:If I may offer another option here, and I do make this recommendation consistently.  If you are dead set on getting a 1911, then at least take the time to try our as many options as you can.  But I will put forth the following if you, or anyone, is interested in competing in precision (bullseye) pistol. 

I'm not sure exactly how much you have shot precision pistol, but with the given classification of Marksman and no other information; I would sincerely recommend that the best 1911 for you to get is the one you will get about a year or two from now.

One of the biggest impediments to improvement, performance wise, is dealing with another gun and in particular a .45 1911 while learning the basics of precision pistol.  Determining if you will shoot open sights or dots, pursuing EIC points or just NRA match shooting, etc. will eventually determine the guns and equipment you will transition to for centerfire / .45 first.  

So, I generally recommend getting a good .22, get started shooting and learning, save the funds so you can get a reloader and a 1911 while progressing to Expert or Master scores with the .22.  Generally, my recommendation for the next gun after a .22 is a quality air pistol, then 1911 with reloader, then custom guns when you think you know what you want (and the first guns become backup / second guns) as the commitment, desire and economics allow.  

On the other hand, if you go all in, then get the best you can from a custom gunsmith or a used custom gun from a bullseye shooter.  Then if you decide the game isn't from you, you will recoup more of your money than with a plan factory gun. (But that hurts like heck on the bank account up front.) 

Just my advise from years of observation, but you should do what makes you happy.  

(The question for you (meaning any shooter) is: Will you be happier shooting well, or happier just owning something?  Everyone is different. ) 

CR
what your saying is pretty much where I am at.. I have only been in a few matches and 22 only.. I just bought my first target 22.. I am liking bullseye and I think I can become proficient.. Hoping to crack sharp Shooter level soon.. I was thinking about a 1911 because I may get rid of one of my other full size tactical pistols and was thinking about replacing with a starter 1911. Your advice is sound I probably dont know enough about what I like to purchase just yet.. but if I did I think I would go with something I could build on over time.  just watched a view about the MAC bulleye 1911 6 inch barrel.. it looks interesting for under 1,000. I assume there is no rule against 6" in bullseye shooting. Right now I am just trying to master the 22lr iron sights.. no red dot yet.. want to make sure my fundamentals are strong.
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by LenV on 2/19/2018, 12:29 am

I see that you have made the decision to stick with a .22 for awhile. Let me just add to your thinking. In the O.P. you wondered if you should go with a Kimber, Gold Cup or Range Officer. I made the remark that you should try them all. To answer your original question the answer would be "Yes". You could start with any of those three pistols and not go wrong. I did try them all. They will all shoot Master scores without much work and all of them could be made into a HM pistol. When it is time to move to another caliber those are fine choices. 


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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by willnewton on 2/19/2018, 8:14 am

Just to back up Cecil’s comment, I would add that another experienced match director and past .22 pistol National Champion, Willie Trowell, recommends that you do not buy a .45 for BE until you are shooting Expert level scores.  He believes that you need to learn how to shoot well first and transfer that skill to the 1911.

Furthermore, Cecil’s comment that an air pistol should follow the .22 is spot on.  I have learned more from shooting my AP than any other method.  It strips away so many distractions that all you can do is get back to fundamentals every. single. shot.

Adding a 1911 can be a total distraction from focusing on the act of shooting.  You have a new pistol to keep you from learning the pistol you already have.  You don’t dry fire because you are reloading and obsessing over crimp size rather than trigger squeeze.  Then you start thinking about all the upgrades and roll triggers you need to have installed.  You start taking classes on building 1911’s. Next thing you know, there is a milling machine and lathe in your garage.  Suddenly, you need a half dozen 1911’s on your workbench and every time you go to the range you are testing something rather than focusing on improving your mental game.  Soon, you start thinking about how you can apply all your technical knowledge to your other guns and have signed on to take revolver smithing classes.  That expensive Swiss .22 target pistol gathers dust while you switch over to 1911 .22 conversions.  Then you spend days making ALL your 1911’s have the exact same trigger feel and rebarreling them and rebuilding and adding scope rails.  The next thing you know, a shooting buddy is asking advice on how to fix his/her pistol and you just can’t help but want to give them a hand.  

Eventually, you get so wrapped up that practice is the few warmup shots you take before your weekly league shoot.

1911 is a helluva drug.

*I’m not saying any of this is relating to my personal experience, I’m just relaying the experience of a “friend”.  Yeah, that’s the ticket!*
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Re: which 1911 to buy

Post by oxbowbob on 2/19/2018, 8:16 pm

willnewton wrote:
Adding a 1911 can be a total distraction from focusing on the act of shooting.  You have a new pistol to keep you from learning the pistol you already have.  You don’t dry fire because you are reloading and obsessing over crimp size rather than trigger squeeze.  Then you start thinking about all the upgrades and roll triggers you need to have installed.  You start taking classes on building 1911’s. Next thing you know, there is a milling machine and lathe in your garage.  Suddenly, you need a half dozen 1911’s on your workbench and every time you go to the range you are testing something rather than focusing on improving your mental game.  Soon, you start thinking about how you can apply all your technical knowledge to your other guns and have signed on to take revolver smithing classes.  That expensive Swiss .22 target pistol gathers dust while you switch over to 1911 .22 conversions.  Then you spend days making ALL your 1911’s have the exact same trigger feel and rebarreling them and rebuilding and adding scope rails.  The next thing you know, a shooting buddy is asking advice on how to fix his/her pistol and you just can’t help but want to give them a hand.  

Eventually, you get so wrapped up that practice is the few warmup shots you take before your weekly league shoot.

1911 is a helluva drug.

*I’m not saying any of this is relating to my personal experience, I’m just relaying the experience of a “friend”.  Yeah, that’s the ticket!*
lol!  But it's so much fun!

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