Center hold or six o'clock

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Center hold or six o'clock

Post by Flytrap1 on 2/25/2018, 7:48 am

I just want to take a survey and see how many shooters adjust their red dots for center hold or the six o'clock hold. I've been using the center hold and adjust my dot so it blocks out the black center of the target. When I have the black covered I fire. Good idea or bad?

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Re: Center hold or six o'clock

Post by SMBeyer on 2/25/2018, 8:36 am

It is always a bad idea to wait for the dot to be in the right place then fire.  Doing it that way will train you to snatch at the trigger when the dot is centered.  Your reaction time to get the shot off properly when you see the correct sight picture is too slow and the dot will not be where you want it when the shot does break and your teaching yourself to jerk the trigger.  With those two things going on I doubt you will ever be able to call shots correctly and will never know how to recognize a good shot.

The pistol 10 ring is huge and you need to take advantage of that and learn area aiming.  Use a smaller dot, trust your hold and squeeze through the shot till the trigger breaks.   It takes a leap of faith on your part to apply pressure to the trigger when the dot isn't where you think it should be but with practice you will find the shot breaks when it needs to.  Doing it this way the shot will typically break when the dot is moving towards the center resulting in a good shot.  Waiting for the dot to be centered then jerking the trigger guarantees the dot will be moving away from the center when the shot breaks resulting in a bad shot or miss.

Scott
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock

Post by PMcfall on 2/25/2018, 9:16 am

Well said, Scott.
 Phil
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock

Post by Allen Barnett on 2/25/2018, 11:19 am

Hmmm.  Makes me re-think my methods.  I use red dots with an adjustable MOA and typically use a dot size which nearly covers the black.  My thoughts were if the dot was still in the black the shot would also be there.  I start taking up the trigger as I bring the gun down and it starts to settle.  If it settles in I continue to apply pressure and break the shot.  If it does not settle I back off the trigger, set the gun down and start over.  Of course this for slow fire.  I can see where using a smaller dot size would increase your score but at my level I am happy if I can keep them all in the black.

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Re: Center hold or six o'clock

Post by desben on 2/25/2018, 11:45 am

To answer the original question... A red dot is meant to be used center hold, i.e. put the dot where you want the hit. 6-o'clock is for iron sights.
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock

Post by dronning on 2/25/2018, 11:58 am

For a dot use center hold, 2MOA or 4 MOA, brightness turned down so you can see it but it's not distracting, watch the target not the dot.  Like when you throw a ball, you don't watch the ball, you focus on the target.

Having said that some people do better focusing on the dot BUT if you catch yourself going back and forth between target and dot try switching your focus.  

Since I started to focus on that white spec in the middle of the target my groups got smaller and X count when up.  Of course much easier to do at 25yds.
- Dave
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock

Post by SMBeyer on 2/25/2018, 12:04 pm

I have shot one guys pistol with a matchdot on either 8 or 12 moa.  Looked like a basketball floating out there!  It at least covered the black if not more.  Maybe it didn't but that is how I felt it appeared to me.  I'm a dot watcher and you would think that would be a good thing since I would have such a big dot to look at and keep my simple mind's attention.  However, what i found I wanted to do with such a big dot was move it out of the way so I could see the black of the target.

I have never seen poll results of what size dot different class shooters use but I don't remember hearing any high master's shooting with a big dot like that.  I'm not saying it's wrong but it doesn't work for me.  For me 4 moa seems perfect.  I have something that keeps my eye's focus but don't have to have it perfectly centered to get a 10.  6 moa is doable for me but bigger than that is too much.  2 moa looks like a pinprick out there.  I think using a dot that matches the size of the black reinforces the "perfect" shot mentality.

Scott

I am the opposite of Dronning.  When I have excellent discipline of watching the dot my x count goes way up.  When I catch myself looking at the target I am shooting poorly.
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock

Post by dronning on 2/25/2018, 12:53 pm

SMBeyer wrote:I am the opposite of Dronning.  When I have excellent discipline of watching the dot my x count goes way up.  When I catch myself looking at the target I am shooting poorly.

I agree with Scott you have to use the method that keeps your focus and then let the shot happen.  For me when I focus on the dot I catch my focus jumping back to the target.  It helped me when I was told if you want to focus on the dot turn up the brightness a little, but if you are focusing on the target turn it down, this helped me choose the target over the dot.  I also know people that do the opposite of this (bright dot target focus) and it works for them.  Even though Zins focuses on the target that doesn't make it right for you or me.
- Dave
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock

Post by PMcfall on 2/25/2018, 1:08 pm

Well, for sure, we are all different and what works for me will likely not work that well for someone else without personal modifications.  I shoot an 8 or 12 min dot running bright since I feel it better keeps my attention since I focus on the dot (hopefully).  When I am really seeing the dot, I see some tiny little black dots within the red.  When I am seeing those, I know I'm concentrating on the dot.  I think the bigger dots appear to moving less than the small dots helping me to keep the trigger moving.
Phil


Last edited by PMcfall on 2/25/2018, 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clarity)
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