Neck turning?

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Neck turning?

Post by Wmvdg123 on 2/26/2018, 11:13 pm

Has anyone tried neck turning for 45 or 9mm? Any increase in accuracy from a ransom rest?
Thx!
Wayne Van De Graaff

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Re: Neck turning?

Post by john bickar on 2/26/2018, 11:24 pm

LOL

Get some popcorn ready, Wayne. And your asbestos underpants Laughing
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Re: Neck turning?

Post by Wmvdg123 on 2/27/2018, 12:50 am

probably a stupid question, but just got a forster turner for my 338 lapua and thought i'd ask, not meant to be a flame.

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Re: Neck turning?

Post by james r chapman on 2/27/2018, 4:16 am

50yds vs. 1000 yds.
some things are only proven out by doing it!
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Re: Neck turning?

Post by Tim:H11 on 2/27/2018, 5:37 am

It’s a straight wall case and there is technically no “neck”. The “neck” is typically referred to a bottle shaped case. Pistol brass is forgiving. I don’t trim mine. Rifle brass is more critical. Longer shots are more  fragile and apt to be affected by characteristic such as wall thickness, and case length.
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Re: Neck turning?

Post by dronning on 2/27/2018, 6:42 am

Wmvdg123 wrote:Has anyone tried neck turning for 45 or 9mm? Any increase in accuracy from a ransom rest?
Thx!
Wayne Van De Graaff

Yep and nope!  

Longer "new" brass does give you a little more accuracy, which is why many shooters use Starline new or once fired brass for the long line.

Straightwalled brass (9mm, 40, 45, 380, 10mm, etc) will shrink with repeated firings, bottlenecked brass stretches - thus trimming is required after a few firings..  Brass length and neck tension are far more critical when shooting at long distances.

I'd be interested to know if Accuracy X does any special brass prep when they do their 100yd plus testing.

- Dave
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Re: Neck turning?

Post by Tim:H11 on 2/27/2018, 7:27 am

I shoot mixed casings I’ve acquired from the range. Gun shoots 2” with my cast bullets and tumble lube. If I could shoot better then I might spring for better quality bullets, better quality brass... maybe. I know some good shooters that use range brass mixed head stamps and they’re 2600+ shooters. It’s not critical until you can see a difference from the hand. I feel once fired or new brass is probably only gonna give you marginally better results. Not worth what little time I have.
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Re: Neck turning?

Post by Aprilian on 2/27/2018, 8:52 am

I'm playing with chamfering inside and out of case mouths - but not for accuracy.   I have some .453 lead bullets which were shaving in once fired Federal cases I bought.  To add to the problem, those cases might have been shot from a short chambered barrel as many displayed curled over material outside and inside at the case mouth.   Loading that particular combo was creating lead and brass shavings which were making me have to inspect and clean each completed round.   So far, the chamfering effort is more time consuming than the clean/inspect and even with brand new carbide cutters, I find I have to remove a lot of material to fully remove the outside edge burrs.  I will most likely not reuse this brass after this experiment.

Yes, I deeply respect the experience and appreciate the shared knowledge on the forum which mostly advise against any brass prep.  But as an engineer I enjoy playing, trying, learning how everything works in making a round which is both accurate and works with my die selection.  I started the reloading hobby late in life, so I get a lot of joy out of making little experiments to speed my learning.
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Re: Neck turning?

Post by dronning on 2/27/2018, 9:09 am

I’ve never had a bullet being shaved with properly adjusted dies.  Not enough bell in the case?
- Dave
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Re: Neck turning?

Post by Aprilian on 2/27/2018, 10:03 am

Dave,

I can seat the bullet by hand almost to the lube ring without shaving, so I think I have sufficient bell.  

I am using Redding dies and the seating stem pushes on the shoulder, so they are not going in crooked.
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Re: Neck turning?

Post by john bickar on 2/27/2018, 10:06 am

There were some threads on here previously about lead shavings having to do with the seating stem depth, I think that it was set too deep. Try searching for "shaving" and/or "stem".
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Re: Neck turning?

Post by Wmvdg123 on 2/27/2018, 10:38 am

Neck turning isn't trimming. It's making the neck of the case more concentric. It does have a result in a significant accuracy increase even at 100 yards. Most benchrest shooters and PRS shooter neck turn. It only has to be done once and doesn't take much time.
I have been reading Tony's bullseye blog.
http://tonybrong.blogspot.com/?m=1
He reports that bullet weighing, using the same headstamp of brass, primer pocket sizing, sorting case by length or trimming, and other careful reloading techniques cut his ransom rest groups from 3 inches to 1.5 inches. If neck turning helps it would make sense to do because it only has to be done once.
I'm new to bullseye, it seems that its not been widely explored, I have ordered a mandrel for 9mm from forster and will give it a try and report back.

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Re: Neck turning?

Post by Jon Eulette on 2/27/2018, 10:51 am

The Air Force has Area 51 and the Army has the AMU. If case turning improved pistol accuracy the AMU would be doing it! Complete waste of time. Exceptional 1911 45's are already shooting 1-1.25" at 50 yds with the best compilation of "measured" components. Your time is better spent dry firing and dry firing some more. Ammunition will never be the deciding factor on winning matches and setting records for pistol shooting.
Jon
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Re: Neck turning?

Post by willnewton on 2/27/2018, 12:59 pm

After reading this, I think I might start checking concentricity and turning the necks on the .22 ammo I have been reloading. It will probably be a big help.

Although I think my work on getting the .22 crimp dimension perfect has resulted in the largest gains vs. dry firing.



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Re: Neck turning?

Post by Tim:H11 on 2/27/2018, 1:26 pm

willnewton wrote:After reading this, I think I might start checking concentricity and turning the necks on the .22 ammo I have been reloading.  It will probably be a big help.

Although I think my work on getting the .22 crimp dimension perfect has resulted in the largest gains vs. dry firing.




lol!
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Re: Neck turning?

Post by james r chapman on 2/27/2018, 3:10 pm

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Re: Neck turning?

Post by Chris Miceli on 2/27/2018, 3:36 pm

Tim:H11 wrote:
willnewton wrote:After reading this, I think I might start checking concentricity and turning the necks on the .22 ammo I have been reloading.  It will probably be a big help.

Although I think my work on getting the .22 crimp dimension perfect has resulted in the largest gains vs. dry firing.




lol!
Just buy better 22lr
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Re: Neck turning?

Post by willnewton on 2/27/2018, 4:44 pm

Hey Wayne, good luck with your testing. We don’t want to discourage you from trying to learn, just trying to point you in the direction that will give you the greatest usable return on your time investment.

Trying to gain an 1/8” on a 10” group by ammo manipulation is not a good return on your time.

Turning that 10” group into a 5” group by range practice and dry fire is time well spent.

I did all kinds of testing and things too, but now I know where to focus. I still love gunsmithing up my pistols into accurate BE guns, but don’t have any illusions that I am gaining much better scores from shooting them.

Most of my gains have come from dry fire/air pistol and getting my head in the right place. If you don’t bring the mindset, the best ammo in the world won’t save you.
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Re: Neck turning?

Post by tomj44 on 3/2/2018, 7:00 am

I think it's a great idea. Why not see how good ammo can be.
Please post your results.

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Re: Neck turning?

Post by 243winxb on 3/2/2018, 9:18 am

And try neck sizing while your at it. Size to just below the bullets base. 

It was in an RCBS news letter years ago. Didn't work for me.
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