What am I doing wrong?

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What am I doing wrong?

Post by ddivins on 6/24/2012, 5:49 pm

All,

I just bought a ReplayXD1080 (POV Action Cam) and attached it to my hearing protection and headed to the range.

I set it for 720 @ 60fps and then uploaded to YouTube. Quality dropped a bit, but if I find some good constructive criticism, I will pony up for a paid vimeo account.

This is an unedited or processed video. I know I was shooting mixed pace on a timed fire target, I was really testing the camera et all. This is video 1 of 3 I made today.

I invite you all to be merciless on me. Also, thoughts on the idea or suggestions...


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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by Steve B on 6/24/2012, 7:27 pm

That's quite a gun for someone with a Barely Competent classification! LOL!
Looks like you're yanking the snot out of that trigger. Not sure where you're at but find a High Master near you or attend a Zins/Moody clinic. Not trying to be rude but there's to much for me to pick on and not enough space to write.
This is a very rewarding sport once you start gaining some trigger control.

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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by Rob Kovach on 6/24/2012, 11:05 pm

I didn't see a whole lot wrong with your shooting. When you are reloading/recocking you swing the muzzle way farther toward your fellow shooters that I would like to see. There were alot of 10's and x's there. I couldn't see a some of the other holes.

The main thing was were you practicing slow fire or sustained fire? You were mixing slow and sustained fire together. I think a camera fixed showing your whole body would be better for analysis than one mounted to you. It would let us see more and not get distracted by the recoil moving the camera.
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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by ddivins on 6/25/2012, 6:40 am

Thanks and keep it coming.

I was so aware of the camera it threw me a bit. I was mixing slow and rapid on a timed target.

I will be extra careful with that muzzle-- there is NO excuse for that being sloppy.

A friend suggested I place the camera on the bench aimed up and let it capture that way. I will work on getting that mount.

Trigger control.

Thanks!

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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by davekp on 6/25/2012, 6:43 am

I think lifting the gun above the target and sweeping it down is bad form and a dangerous habit. If you raise the gun to the target, the target is always in view and not blocked by the gun itself.

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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by ddivins on 6/25/2012, 7:16 am

davekp wrote:I think lifting the gun above the target and sweeping it down is bad form and a dangerous habit. If you raise the gun to the target, the target is always in view and not blocked by the gun itself.

Thanks. It's unnatural for me, but that's what I've seen lots do. My natural movement is to raise to the target from bottom up and stop.

Thoughts?

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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by davekp on 6/25/2012, 7:32 am

ddivins wrote:
davekp wrote:I think lifting the gun above the target and sweeping it down is bad form and a dangerous habit. If you raise the gun to the target, the target is always in view and not blocked by the gun itself.

Thanks. It's unnatural for me, but that's what I've seen lots do. My natural movement is to raise to the target from bottom up and stop.

Thoughts?

Way better than sweeping down. Others have seen too many western movies!

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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by DavidR on 6/25/2012, 9:42 am

I think your choice of gun a great one! Buy the best you can afford and you can forget about if its good enough to do the job. Goes for ammo too. That is the only indoor range ive seen with no protective wall between shooters. The public at large are the most unsafe people ive seen. Id watch others as much as id make sure i was safe too. Just keep practicing, you will get better, just go to the bullseye encyclopedia website and study what the great shooters have written about the fundamentals and you will progress im sure.
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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by ddivins on 6/25/2012, 9:54 am

Thanks, David. My logic with the gun was just that. One less thing to worry about.

As for the range, there is thick bulletproof glass between lanes. If you look closely, you can see some reflections of my feet. There is also a brass mesh up top. It's a really nice facility.

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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by DavidR on 6/25/2012, 10:39 am

Ok, couldn't tell in the video, but that would keep you safer for sure.
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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by tonyg on 6/30/2012, 2:50 pm

ddivins wrote:
davekp wrote:I think lifting the gun above the target and sweeping it down is bad form and a dangerous habit. If you raise the gun to the target, the target is always in view and not blocked by the gun itself.

Thanks. It's unnatural for me, but that's what I've seen lots do. My natural movement is to raise to the target from bottom up and stop.

Thoughts?



Hi Guys, there is nothing wrong or unsafe about lifting above the bull and then dropping into your aiming area.

This is more true for slow fire than for timed and rapid fire. I guess it is more facilitated if you're shooting with

open sights. Since I shoot open sights only, I always raise above the bull and then drop into my aiming area whether

slow,timed or rapid fire shooting. for timed and rapid, I start the pull and the sight alignment together as I approach

my sub-six aiming area. I get this from ISSF AP60 and 50 meter pistol experience(all slow fire).

ISSF Rapid and Sport pistol shooters always lift up to the aiming area (pistol held below 45 degrees) during rapid fire

strings; as required by ISSF rules. Most Sport pistol shooters lift above the bull and then drop into their aiming area

when shooting the Slow Fire string.



Tony

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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by Jack H on 7/1/2012, 12:42 am

I have yet to confirm anything but seems to me raising into your aim area will have your arm in the up mode. There seems to be some wisdom in doing that Oh well, back to lowering...
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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by BE Mike on 7/1/2012, 8:12 am

In my opinion, one should study the fundamentals and then concentrate on what one does correctly. Think positive! That will be a foundation on which to build successful shooting. After you have an idea of the fundamentals you should formulate a shooting plan and write it down, as well as, keep a shooting diary. The shooting plan should be in your words and will be changed over time. The shooting diary should contain important information learned at each training session and be referred to often and used to develop a lesson plan for subsequent training sessions. People have a tendency to forget, otherwise. Most shooters won't put in the time and effort necessary to advance to a level they are capable of, so if you put in the effort, you will surpass them. Once you get to a certain level, you may want to study the psychological side of shooting to help control yourself during matches. The written shooting plan is a part of that psychological control as well.
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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by DavidR on 7/2/2012, 10:08 am

Raising the gun from below the target has another advantage, if your shooting a range like perry that every target and frame looks the same you can confirm your not going to cross fire because you will be starting your aim looking at your firing point number on the post as you raise into the target area. Its not if your going to cross fire its when and if you learn to do it this way you are much less likely to cross fire.
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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by ddivins on 7/2/2012, 10:41 pm

I'm waiting for the camera's tripod mount. Here is today's outing, again on my ear protection:



-dsd

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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by BE Mike on 7/3/2012, 8:29 am

I watched the entire video. I'm retired and the heat has been oppressive, so what else do I have to do? I made the following observations:

1. You really have a nice facility there. That is a big plus. Training with distractions like you are doing is a benefit. You seem to be doing very well at this stage. You are using safe gun handling procedures.

2. You should train to duplicate match conditions as closely as possible. You should use the appropriate target for the distance and use the appropriate target for the type of shooting you are doing, i.e. slow fire or sustained fire. For sustained fire a tool to keep the time for you is helpful. If the range allows the targets to be turned, that is even better.

3. Use more staples. When shooting outdoors a couple of staples won't do. Staples are cheap...time is valuable.

4. If possible, I would release the slide by pulling it back and letting it slingshot forward to save on the notch. You aren't really doing anything wrong, I'm just thinking of conserving the equipment.

5. Build your position each time you step to the line. Check your foot position by closing your eyes while pointing your index finger or pistol and making a cross. If your finger isn't pointed at the target, change your rear foot position so your arm and hand are aligned with the target without any undue strain on your muscles. I'm sure you have this written down in your shot plan. Surprised

6. A spotting scope or binoculars are a big asset for training for slow fire. They give you immediate feedback on each shot. How are you going to know how those X's you shot feel unless you know that you shot one? The spotting scope will also help you change your paradigm. You can train yourself to expect those good shots and know that you are causing them and they aren't just luck.

7. Remember that the shot or shot string that you are about to fire is the most important shot(s) at the time.

8. Learning to shoot properly the first time trumps learning improperly, picking up bad habits and having to unlearn them and relearn the proper fundamentals.

Good luck and good shooting!


Last edited by BE Mike on 7/3/2012, 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by tonyg on 7/3/2012, 10:49 am

DavidR wrote:Raising the gun from below the target has another advantage, if your shooting a range like perry that every target and frame looks the same you can confirm your not going to cross fire because you will be starting your aim looking at your firing point number on the post as you raise into the target area. Its not if your going to cross fire its when and if you learn to do it this way you are much less likely to cross fire.

Well, this does seem a good rational reason for the bottom lift. However,

I've shot a huge amount of pellets during 10 meter air pistol matches,

on an electronic retrieval system, with the relatively same target size and

spacing as a Bullseye course. I can only recall one instance of a cross fire.

Our 10 meter targets didn't even have target position numbers(so all targets look the same too).

Since nearly all the AP shooters lift over and then drop into a sub-six area aim,

I attribute shooting on the correct target a result of consistant body stance and hold.

I'll stress that this was a slow fire regimen. But I also use the same lift for Bullseye

events. What's this really mean? Shoot whatever way you are comfortable

with. Smile

Tony

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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by ddivins on 7/10/2012, 9:02 pm

Thanks all. Love the feed back, lets keep it coming :-)

Below is a quick clip from a different angle. Wondering if anyone can critique my trigger pull.

Range 7/10/2012 from David Divins on Vimeo.



Thanks!
dsd

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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by Jack H on 7/10/2012, 11:06 pm

Slow down your SF between shots. Stop looking around checking out the ladies. It is you and the gun mostly and a little bit of the target. Stop fiddling so much. Firm your grip say 95% before you insert magazine. I saw a little jerk on what appeared a last trigger. Between shots stare down the target and visualize the next shot. Don't break position. Smoother on the sustained trigger. Sorry to be so negative.
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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by ddivins on 7/11/2012, 5:49 am

Constructive criticism is not negative. How will I learn of I don't know what to correct.

I truly appreciate this forum and all the help. I did shoot a TF string of 95-2x during yesterday's session. A personal best.

Keep it coming!
Thanks

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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by DavidR on 7/11/2012, 9:01 am

tonyg wrote:
DavidR wrote:Raising the gun from below the target has another advantage, if your shooting a range like perry that every target and frame looks the same you can confirm your not going to cross fire because you will be starting your aim looking at your firing point number on the post as you raise into the target area. Its not if your going to cross fire its when and if you learn to do it this way you are much less likely to cross fire.

Well, this does seem a good rational reason for the bottom lift. However,

I've shot a huge amount of pellets during 10 meter air pistol matches,

on an electronic retrieval system, with the relatively same target size and

spacing as a Bullseye course. I can only recall one instance of a cross fire.

Our 10 meter targets didn't even have target position numbers(so all targets look the same too).

Since nearly all the AP shooters lift over and then drop into a sub-six area aim,

I attribute shooting on the correct target a result of consistant body stance and hold.

I'll stress that this was a slow fire regimen. But I also use the same lift for Bullseye

events. What's this really mean? Shoot whatever way you are comfortable

with. Smile

Tony

If you think cross firing is something that happens rarely, then you must have not competed very much in outdoor bullseye. I see it happen at every match and with every skill level. At camp perry it happens a lot. Outdoor matches have no lanes or dividers to help you, at best you might have different colored target frames that help but at camp perry your standing in a field facing a endless line of white frames with targets, every one looking the same as the next except for that little number below the target. Since there is no real advantage to lower into the target over raising up to it, seeing and a quick conformation you are on the right target is a plus IMO.
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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by tonyg on 7/11/2012, 3:36 pm

Oh Dear, David You said: "If you think cross firing is something that happens rarely, then you must have not competed very much in outdoor bullseye. I see it happen at every match and with every skill level. At camp perry it happens a lot. Outdoor matches have no lanes or dividers to help you, at best you might have different colored target frames that help but at camp perry your standing in a field facing a endless line of white frames with targets, every one looking the same as the next except for that little number below the target. Since there is no real advantage to lower into the target over raising up to it, seeing and a quick conformation you are on the right target is a plus IMO."

Well, you got me there; I've never been to camp Perry, but I'd love to go some day. You're also right, I haven't competed

much in outdoor bullseye, I've just competed in Bullseye club matches off and on since 1972. I decided last December, to go back to bullseye

shooting after mostly shooting ten meter air pistol(AP60) for the last 5 years and that shooting, is what I referred to when

I remarked that I saw so few crossover hits. For Slow Fire, I'll always lift over and then drop down into my aiming area, but I think I

will give a try to lifting up to the aiming area during rapid fire strings.scratch

Tony

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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by Jack H on 7/11/2012, 3:53 pm

For what it's worth, I lift over the SF bull while I take a full breath. I am looking beside the gun at my target. Sometimes I roll the gun fully outward to set my shoulder position. Then I roll back to slightly underneath the bull picking up my sights exhaling. I have a pretty good feel for my position being staged right. If not I stop and make corrections. My last move is inhale partway, start the trigger and project to the target in a smoothe launch.

Shots 2,3,4,5 in a string don't work that way. Position should be set so sights return from recoil to the same area.
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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by DavidR on 7/11/2012, 4:56 pm

tonyg wrote:Oh Dear, David You said: "If you think cross firing is something that happens rarely, then you must have not competed very much in outdoor bullseye. I see it happen at every match and with every skill level. At camp perry it happens a lot. Outdoor matches have no lanes or dividers to help you, at best you might have different colored target frames that help but at camp perry your standing in a field facing a endless line of white frames with targets, every one looking the same as the next except for that little number below the target. Since there is no real advantage to lower into the target over raising up to it, seeing and a quick conformation you are on the right target is a plus IMO."

Well, you got me there; I've never been to camp Perry, but I'd love to go some day. You're also right, I haven't competed

much in outdoor bullseye, I've just competed in Bullseye club matches off and on since 1972. I decided last December, to go back to bullseye

shooting after mostly shooting ten meter air pistol(AP60) for the last 5 years and that shooting, is what I referred to when

I remarked that I saw so few crossover hits. For Slow Fire, I'll always lift over and then drop down into my aiming area, but I think I

will give a try to lifting up to the aiming area during rapid fire strings.scratch

Tony
No dis-respect meant,Just wanted to throw out a tip that helped me and many others who have cross fired not do it again. David
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Re: What am I doing wrong?

Post by tonyg on 7/13/2012, 6:32 pm

All is well and all is cool, David. I do respect your position and input.

I don't mind saying that I believe your point is valid. Sometimes online

discussions are awkward and unwieldy; and that's because we are not face to face,

and that results in missing many enjoyable nuances.

Tony

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