Reline Nelson. What?

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Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Jack H on 3/16/2018, 1:27 am

I saw in a post about a reline on a Nelson.  Sams, I think.  Sounded like a routine consideration.  Is that ever needed?  Really? 

I have a 41 bbl relined by Alex.  But it was needed due to keyholes at 50'.  The reline shoots no better than my good 41 barrels.
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 3/16/2018, 6:02 am

A new barrel from Nelson cost ~$115.00.  Not that economics or common sense have much of a role in some decisions, but I would just buy a new Nelson barrel.

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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Chris Miceli on 3/16/2018, 8:26 am

I like Larry and the Nelson product, but I haven't seen any stock barrels that produce the same accuracy as a relined or custom barrel.
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by SW-52 on 3/16/2018, 8:36 am

Chris Miceli wrote:I like Larry and the Nelson product, but I haven't seen any stock barrels that produce the same accuracy as a relined or custom barrel.
the marvels need relined barrels for better accuracy?
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Virgil Kane on 3/16/2018, 8:44 am

I had a reline done on a 41 and have been thoroughly disappointed in it's performance, sent it back and was told there was nothing wrong with it. Money would have been better spent on a new barrel not a reline.  Wish Bully Barrels was still around with BE barrels where you could look at test groups of different barrels before purchasing one.  Anything less than seeing what a barrel or reline can do is a crap shoot.

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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Chris Miceli on 3/16/2018, 8:45 am

SW-52 wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:I like Larry and the Nelson product, but I haven't seen any stock barrels that produce the same accuracy as a relined or custom barrel.
the marvels need relined barrels for better accuracy?
I would =] Jerry did
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Chris Miceli on 3/16/2018, 8:48 am

Virgil Kane wrote:I had a reline done on a 41 and have been thoroughly disappointed in it's performance, sent it back and was told there was nothing wrong with it. Money would have been better spent on a new barrel not a reline.  Wish Bully Barrels was still around with BE barrels where you could look at test groups of different barrels before purchasing one.  Anything less than seeing what a barrel or reline can do is a crap shoot.

Virgil
I know Sams sends test targets after a reline. Don't forget 22s can have accuracy enhanced by the right lot # of the right ammo.
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by james r chapman on 3/16/2018, 8:49 am

I think one needs to keep mindful of who might benefit from this.
Masters seeking High Master probably.
The rest of we Minions are hard pressed to outshoot the factory barrels on any of these fixed barrel guns.
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Tim:H11 on 3/16/2018, 9:39 am

My Nelson shoots 1” off sand bags with wolf target Ammo at 50’yards. Is the few hundred dollars worth it to me for it to shoot a quarter inch (or maybe a little better than that) tighter? No. It’ll hold X ring or better stock so long as you’re shooting the right Ammo. So I’m not going to worry about it. It won’t shoot any better than 2 inches with CCI. So if you want your gun to shoot cheaper Ammo better then yes have it lined. Other wise spend the money on the better and Ammo. I only shoot the good stuff at 50 yards. Helps keep the cost down. At least at a local match. I’m getting ready to travel to a match soon and I’ll be shooting good Ammo for both distances there since I’m already spending money to travel to shoot - might as well shoot the good stuff and make it worth it.
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Chris Miceli on 3/16/2018, 9:45 am

If it doesn’t do 1” cci it’s a turd. The cost of a new barrel is cheaper than years of tenex
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by mspingeld on 3/16/2018, 9:53 am

So what ammo has yielded good results? I like Center-X for my Pardini. Anyone try that with a Nelson? Results?

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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Chris Miceli on 3/16/2018, 9:57 am

mspingeld wrote:So what ammo has yielded good results? I like Center-X for my Pardini. Anyone try that with a Nelson? Results?
Every barrel is different, but tenex and the like are worthy of trying
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by jglenn21 on 3/16/2018, 10:48 am

sometimes an alternative to re-lining is simply to have the Crown re-cut properly
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Jon Eulette on 3/16/2018, 11:07 am

Unfortunately conversions have been manufactured on CNC lathes and have the muzzles crowned by hand with a reamer. It is puloted off the bore but there can be play which is not a crowns best friend for accuracy. Turning crown on a lathe is best way to get most from the barrels accuracy. Unfortunately the Nelsons are done this way. I spoje with Larry about it and they are working on improving it.
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on 3/16/2018, 7:59 pm

I’llBullseye_Stan wrote:A new barrel from Nelson cost ~$115.00.  Not that economics or common sense have much of a role in some decisions, but I would just buy a new Nelson barrel.

Not great advice.  I have 3 Nelson barrels.  One barrel is around 3/4" (10 shots at 50 yards) with Eley TENEX. You are playing the lottery. David Sams will re-line your barrel and I've never seen anything over 1" with any ammunition yet.  Instead of playing the $150 lottery Dave can ensure you have the results you desire.

jglenn21 wrote:sometimes an alternative to re-lining is simply to have the Crown re-cut properly

I did this with one barrel and it reduced the group with Aguila and CCI by 1/2.  It took TENEX from 1.5" to .77" which was very good, for 10 shots at 50 yds, but it gets expensive to feed.

Chris Miceli wrote:
mspingeld wrote:So what ammo has yielded good results? I like Center-X for my Pardini. Anyone try that with a Nelson? Results?
Every barrel is different, but tenex and the like are worthy of trying

Chris is spot on. 

Barrel #7 (loose chamber)
Factory crown and chamber corrected by Gunsmith prior to testing (original groups were 2x this size)
10 shots, 50 yards from H.E.G. rest





Barrel #77 (Tight Chamber)
I plan on re-doing the crown, and then re-testing.  Just like barrel #7, the crown could be better and I believe that is hampering the accuracy.
10 shots, 50 yards, Ransom Rest





Barrel #77 Results

Lapua Midas+               .946"
Lapua Center-X           1.161"
Eley     TENEX             1.287"
Eley     Club                  1.357"
CCI      SV                    1.553"
SK      PIstol Match      1.932"
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 3/17/2018, 7:37 am

After reading this thread, I think I'll work on cleaning up the crown on my conversion.  I want to remove the sight rib for substituting a weaver rail anyway.  I'm fairly certain the plain barrel will allow using a 4 jaw chuck with a 60 deg center drill for the crown.  I need to do that with a safe queen HS Citation I found at a gun show a few months back.

I have a hard time believing there is a guarantee of 1" 50 yard groups with a newly relined barrel using any .22lr ammunition. That sounds too good to be true.  But, I've learned not to argue about such topics.

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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Skid on 3/17/2018, 7:47 am

Thanks for your post JayhawkNavy02.

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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by jglenn21 on 3/17/2018, 8:36 am

4 jaw works perfectly. I use a modified boring bar to cut mine.. usually a 45 degree for 22s.  I do use an 11 degree on rifles and 1911 barrels(it's pretty)
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Dr.Don on 3/17/2018, 8:42 am

Don't use a center drill for the crown.  Center in the 4-jaw and use a single point tool with the compound set at an angle to cut the crown.  Angle is somewhat arbitrary, but many use 11 degrees.  The tailstock is seldom dead center with the headstock and a center drill may well may it worse.
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Jon Eulette on 3/17/2018, 8:54 am

Bullseye_Stan wrote:After reading this thread, I think I'll work on cleaning up the crown on my conversion.  I want to remove the sight rib for substituting a weaver rail anyway.  I'm fairly certain the plain barrel will allow using a 4 jaw chuck with a 60 deg center drill for the crown.  I need to do that with a safe queen HS Citation I found at a gun show a few months back.

I have a hard time believing there is a guarantee of 1" 50 yard groups with a newly relined barrel using any .22lr ammunition. That sounds too good to be true.  But, I've learned not to argue about such topics.

The several relined barrels I've seen or owned all shot in neighborhood of 0.5" with majority of ammo tried. My older Marvel has Shilen barrel and shoots 0.5-0.6". Liners are not a gimmick but do require skill to install. Dave Sams is a master at it.
Jon
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on 3/17/2018, 9:07 am

Bullseye_Stan wrote:I have a hard time believing there is a guarantee of 1" 50 yard groups with a newly relined barrel using any .22lr ammunition. That sounds too good to be true.  But, I've learned not to argue about such topics.

I do too!  I may be wrong, but I don’t think anyone said Dave would guarantee with any ammo.
It is too good to be true, because it isn’t and that may be my fault for not being clear.  As of yet I have not seen any Remington Thunderbolt bullet bucket test targets anyway.

Of the ammo he uses and the targets I’ve seen none have been over 3/4” and most well under that with a variety of match ammo.  European (TENEX/Midas+) and budget (Club/CCI SV), etc.


Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on 3/17/2018, 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 3/17/2018, 9:39 am

I didn't mean the crown - which I would use a lathe tool to cut.  I mean the chamfer (where the rifling lands meet the edge of the grooves).  Brownells sells the 45 deg hand chamfering tools.  I've modified my tailstock for centering with the chuck, it's a G0602 (Chinese) lathe that needed a few tweaks.  But a single bit tool with the compound set at a 23 degree angle is a good approach.  Thanks for pointing that out.

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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Dcforman on 3/17/2018, 10:54 am

Does anyone know offhand what Sams charges for a reline?

Thanks!

Dave

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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by SW-52 on 3/17/2018, 1:33 pm

JayhawkNavy02 wrote:
I’llBullseye_Stan wrote:A new barrel from Nelson cost ~$115.00.  Not that economics or common sense have much of a role in some decisions, but I would just buy a new Nelson barrel.

Not great advice.  I have 3 Nelson barrels.  One barrel is around 3/4" (10 shots at 50 yards) with Eley TENEX. You are playing the lottery. David Sams will re-line your barrel and I've never seen anything over 1" with any ammunition yet.  Instead of playing the $150 lottery Dave can ensure you have the results you desire.

jglenn21 wrote:sometimes an alternative to re-lining is simply to have the Crown re-cut properly

I did this with one barrel and it reduced the group with Aguila and CCI by 1/2.  It took TENEX from 1.5" to .77" which was very good, for 10 shots at 50 yds, but it gets expensive to feed.

Chris Miceli wrote:
mspingeld wrote:So what ammo has yielded good results? I like Center-X for my Pardini. Anyone try that with a Nelson? Results?
Every barrel is different, but tenex and the like are worthy of trying

Chris is spot on. 

Barrel #7 (loose chamber)
Factory crown and chamber corrected by Gunsmith prior to testing (original groups were 2x this size)
10 shots, 50 yards from H.E.G. rest





Barrel #77 (Tight Chamber)
I plan on re-doing the crown, and then re-testing.  Just like barrel #7, the crown could be better and I believe that is hampering the accuracy.
10 shots, 50 yards, Ransom Rest





Barrel #77 Results

Lapua Midas+               .946"
Lapua Center-X           1.161"
Eley     TENEX             1.287"
Eley     Club                  1.357"
CCI      SV                    1.553"
SK      PIstol Match      1.932"
what's reline Price???
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Chris Miceli on 3/17/2018, 1:43 pm

300+ I believe
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Re: Reline Nelson. What?

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