Cool heads prevail

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Cool heads prevail

Post by TOMBECK on 3/29/2018, 8:42 pm

Bought an S&W 41 barrel from Ljohns that described 
I have a nice S & W Model 41 7 Inch barrel for sale.

"Very good condition. The spot on the lower left end of barrel is a reflection, not a wear mark. The compensator is a matt finish.

Nice rifling and comes complete with adjustable rear sight.

This barrel is a drop in replacement on your 5.5" pistol."

The one picture was the  left side and looked good.  On receipt, the barrel had a cutout on the right side behind the chamber 
about 1" long and width of about 1/2 of the rib. As a 41 collector, I am familiar  with this modification to improve ejection
BUT no mention was made of this changing - affecting the value of the bbl.

When questioned, I was told "You should have asked". Said it was not his problem. I have dealt on GB, E-Bay, RFC, S-WForum, and others,
and this is one of the few times I have had such a negative reaction.

Any suggestions appreciated.


Last edited by willnewton on 3/30/2018, 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : An admin has changed the title of this thread to reflect the resolved situation.)

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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by teg2658 on 3/29/2018, 9:03 pm

Full disclosure as a sellers is a must, the seller didn't tell the whole truth or chose not to tell it. It is up to the seller to make it right. I wish you luck, sounds like you need it.
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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by mpolans on 3/30/2018, 7:09 am

lk
Give him a chance to make it right or respond with his side of the story. If he won’t, I don’t see a problem with posting his true name and contact info so others aren’t similarly misled.

That said, you really should ask for pictures of all slides of an item, especially if it will affect its value to you.

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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by willnewton on 3/30/2018, 7:25 am

I think the seller should have disclosed an obvious modification as well.  As you noted, one buyer may see it as adding value and another may see it as removing value.  That being said, I can’t enforce disclosure.

I can’t do much about your transaction or the behavior of the seller towards your desire to reverse or modify the transaction .  The sale forum is a “caveat emptor”, buyer beware system.  

I can address the problem if there was malicious intent to misrepresent the sale.  Especially if you had asked if there were any modifications, was told “No.”, then received a modified item or if the item were Photoshopped to hide defects.  Even then, I cannot directly help make the transaction itself whole, just take action against the seller on the forum.

“Malicious intent” within the listing itself is not so cut and dried in this case.  The seller did not disclose, but did they seek to mislead a buyer?  I looked at the listing and it does not immediately appear that way.

Is there some action against the seller you would like me to consider?  I am open to suggestions.  If you want to take this further then I will contact the seller and take their side into consideration as well.  Just keep in mind that I cannot make your transaction whole or force anyone to comply any more than a newspaper could enforce a want ad transaction. At worst, I could ban the seller from the forum, but I can tell you that is not likely from what you have posted or what I see in the listing.

If you want to sell it, then contact the other potential buyer that posted in his thread and see if he is still interested.

I am here to help and fully understand your complaint. I would not be happy either. I just have limited powers to do so.
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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by willnewton on 3/30/2018, 7:28 am

mpolans wrote:If he won’t, I don’t see a problem with posting his true name and contact info so others aren’t similarly misled.

ABSOLUTELY NOT. DO NOT DO THIS. I am not going to have that on this forum, it only leads to problems. This is between buyer and seller only and maybe an admin.

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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by Ljohns on 3/30/2018, 7:49 am

I'm sorry TOMBECK isn't happy with his purchase.

I took the 2 Model 41 barrels in part of a trade in another transaction. I knew nothing about them but posted pictures that I felt were representative and showed condition. I feel I priced them fairly. TOMBECK even asked that I take less than I asked for the barrels and I agreed. I received his payment and shipped them immediately.

Then TOMBECK contacted me complaining that one of the barrels had been modified to improve ejection. I had no idea this had been done. I am not experienced with these items and had no way to tell the barrel had the described improvement. As far as I'm concerned the barrel is still fully functional.

I told TOMBECK that I would have sent him more photographs if he had requested. I also told him I would have answered any questions had he asked. I provided complete contact information and the time for him to ask questions and check out his concerns was before the sale, not afterwords.

I have completed transactions on this Forum and others in the past and never had a problem with anyone about anything. You can rest assured I will always post pictures fairly representing any Item I have for sale, I will always answer any question I can and ask a fair price for anything I list on this or any other Forum. I guess you just can't please everyone everytime.
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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by willnewton on 3/30/2018, 7:58 am

Ljohns, thank you for posting.  You intentions do not seem to fall into “malicious intent”.

As such, I will not take action via the forum, as there was no evidence of direct violation or ill intent presented.

Buyer Beware applies here, not forum enforcement.

Tom may pursue things further privately and I trust both parties will keep it gentlemanly. It is unfortunate that a return cannot be arranged, but that is beyond my jurisdiction.

I will be offline traveling today, but will be monitoring this thread.
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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by Ljohns on 3/30/2018, 9:49 am

To TOMBECK:

If your are truly unhappy with the barrel why not, at least, contact RETRIEVER. He expressed an interest in it and he may look at the modification as added value.
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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by zanemoseley on 3/30/2018, 11:50 am

John's, why not offer a refund minus the shipping costs? Then relist the barrels with a better description. I'm sure someone will want the. Personally I want someone happy with something they buy from me especially if I didn't describe an item fully. I think its doing the right thing.

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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by Jack H on 3/30/2018, 12:47 pm

Take the barrel back.  It's the right thing to do
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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by mikemyers on 3/30/2018, 2:45 pm

Seems to me that if the buyer knew more about this modification/condition than the seller, the buyer could have asked to confirm the condition.  If the seller doesn't know anything about the modification, he wouldn't know to post anything about it either.

If the modification is worthwhile, and makes the part work better, and if the seller knew about it, he might have raised the price, describing the extra feature.  It probably cost someone good money to have the modification done to the barrel.   (Can you post a photo of the modification, so I understand what you're talking about?  Curious.  I've got a 7" barrel from my M-41 - I can't picture what the modification involves....)
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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by dronning on 3/30/2018, 2:59 pm

I'd say take the barrel back, it is the right thing to do.  If you are selling something you aren't familiar with and claim it's in near perfect condition then you set yourself up for an unhappy customer when modifications are discovered.  

On the other hand if the buyer was looking to restore a gun and is concerned about originality then more questions should have been asked especially when a know modification is common.
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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by SonOfAGun on 3/30/2018, 3:14 pm

mikemyers wrote:Seems to me that if the buyer knew more about this modification/condition than the seller, the buyer could have asked to confirm the condition.  If the seller doesn't know anything about the modification, he wouldn't know to post anything about it either.

We've determined that the seller didn't know all the details about the item. So that clears the seller of intentional misrepresentation.

In a forum like this, the buyer may have assumed the seller was more knowledgeable about the item.

So, no-one is a bad guy here, and there is no malicious intent. But how does the seller handle the problem after the sale? I'm not a Bullseye expert, or even a gun expert for that matter. But I have years of experience buying and selling specialty equipment, both via internet and face to face. To maintain respectable standing in a relatively small community the proper thing to do is for the seller to offer to refund the money, minus transaction fees, after it is returned by the buyer. For the reason of the modification, or for any other cause of dissatisfaction. Return shipping should be paid by the buyer (recommend insured w/ signature acceptance).

It's the nice guy thing to do. It shows trust and good faith on both sides.

Seller then has the opportunity to re-list the item with more accurate description. Price can be adjusted up or down, depending on how the market may view the value of the modification. Some buyers would prefer originality, others may prefer the modification. Both positions are valid.
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Refund Offered

Post by Ljohns on 3/30/2018, 5:14 pm

O.K. You guys have convinced me that the best solution to this situation is to just accept return of the barrel and refund the money.

I have contacted Tom and offered a refund.
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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by willnewton on 3/30/2018, 5:53 pm

Thank you Ljohns and TOMBECK for coming together and finding a solution.

It speaks well of both of you that you handled this complicated situation calmly.

I am closing this thread as this seems resolved between the involved parties.

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Re: Cool heads prevail

Post by mpolans on 3/30/2018, 6:07 pm

Ljohns, great job on being a stand up seller!  If you relist it, I'm eager to see what the modification looks like.

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Re: Cool heads prevail

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