Barrel problem, S&W M-52

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Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by mikemyers on Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

I bought my M-52 a couple of years ago.  The fellow I bought it from used it for a short time probably in the 1980's, then put it away.  I bought it, but didn't get to use it much.  I cleaned it once, but before that I hadn't shot it very much.  For the past few weeks, I'm shooting it more, and working on what to do to improve my shooting.  Today I intended to do a thorough cleaning.  

When I got to the barrel, the cleaning brass brush felt "funny" when it was close to the chamber end of the barrel.  I looked in, and saw what I thought was lead fowling.  So, lets of patches, lots of "Shooter's Choice", followed by lots of Hoppe's #9 - now it's better, but it's not clean.


Somehow I managed to get a photo of it.  The photo looks worse than what I see looking at it, but my main issue right now is what to do about it.  Can I clean it at all, or do I need to send it to a specialist?  Can it even be fixed?  Maybe I should post this in the S&W forum as well - maybe someone there has already dealt with this problem.  Here's the gruesome photo:

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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by LenV on Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:56 pm

Anyone ever put a barrel in your ultrasonic cleaner? Just curious.

Len
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:07 pm

LenV wrote:Anyone ever put a barrel in your ultrasonic cleaner? Just curious.

Len

took off dirt, carbon, old oil, etc.  pb fouling just laughed at me til I got out my Lewis lead tool.
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by mikemyers on Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:36 pm

Other than not having a clue as to easily remove the barrel bushing and spring (without risking damaging the threads!!!!), what else is wrong with how he took it apart?   I didn't like what he did, as for him the bushing "sprung out".  When I do it, the bushing completely unscrews, making things easy.

I took mine apart the way that my brother showed me.  He showed me to start with the bushing removal.  The article listed below says to start by removing the slide assembly?

Instructions for the M-52 were printed in another ancient gun book I bought, specifically to get those instructions: 

Firearms Assembly II
The NRA Guidebook to Handguns
1972
Smith & Wesson Model 52 Pistol, by James M. Triggs

(This is for the original Model 52, no "dash".)

Considering how old it is, maybe I can scan those pages and post them here....   I will try.
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by mikemyers on Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:52 pm

Instructions are on page 1, bottom left.
This is for Model 52, no dash.

Not sure how to make them any larger, to be easier to read....




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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by mikemyers on Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:18 pm

Kurt, you are SO right.  I've been doing this wrong forever, as has the fellow who taught me...

More from S&W:



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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by mikemyers on Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:25 pm

kjanracing wrote:DON’T as in DO NOT follow that guy in the video showing how to take down a 52! He has no clue how it’s done.
Kurt
Added later.....   I've been so involved (one track mind) with the barrel, I never noticed what Kurt wrote until an hour ago.  The people who taught me how to disassemble the 52 did it wrong, as did my relative who also owns one.  I've been doing it wrong since I bought it.

I copied over the instructions up above of the correct way to do it.

Yikes, once again, NEVER trust what you find on the internet, until you're sure it's correct.  My fault....



I thought he was mixed up, as what he did seemed a good way to damage the threads on the barrel bushing.  Watching it spring out, that was scary. Now I see the whole order of things was wrong.  Oh well.


Back to worrying about my barrel.  It is sitting on a table with a Hoppe's soaked patch keeping the Hoppe's in contact with the lead.
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by orpheoet on Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:50 pm

I too bought a safe queen 52-2. I've never had an issue with leading. To me the bigger issue here is what's going on that caused so much build up. I'm newish to the sport as well so I don't have any insight into causes but I suggest you think about posting that as a seperate topic. Maybe I'm just lucky but I've never seen build up like that in any of my guns and I shoot a lot of lead.
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by LenV on Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:15 pm

In my opinion that probably happened with the first box of ammo that mike put through the pistol. First box that he re-loaded. There was zero crimp on first batch (as shown in re-loading 52 OP) Probably had more blow-by then you can imagine. Of course that is just my opinion. Add 3.00 and get a bad cup of coffee Very Happy
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by mikemyers on Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:37 am

Thanks, Len.  If not enough crimp can cause leading, then that first box (along with the identical 20 reloaded rounds I shot last year) are a likely culprit.  Or, it could be the box of 50 rounds that the fellow who reloads for our club gave me.  He makes his own bullets too, and those rounds were noticeably less accurate than mine.  That being the case, I can improve on the crimp until I get it right.

My plan right now for the future is to use my progressive press to do everything except crimp, and I will do that for a while in my ancient RCBS Big Max press, using a separate crimping die.  Will post photos here before I start shooting.  I've got a trip coming up, so all of this might get delayed for several weeks.


I was reading about leading on this page:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_lowdownleadfoul_201002/

Last paragraph in that article:


"Here’s a tip for dealing with heavy leading once it occurs: Don’t rush. Wipe off the outside of the firearm and simply use a clean, dry brush on the leaded bore to rough up the lead. Set the gun aside for a few days before trying to remove the deposits. Lead tends to oxidize rapidly to a dark gray powder; the “time out” period can convert a fair amount of the lead to the oxide form, making cleaning easier."
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by mikemyers on Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:42 am

Updated photo, taken this morning.  Some change, but not much...

Any ideas on how I can plug up the end of the barrel, so I can fill it with Hoppe's?
Maybe cut one finger off a pair of surgical gloves, and wrap it around the barrel?

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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by jglenn21 on Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:56 am

Plug from the lewis
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by dronning on Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:09 am

LenV wrote:Anyone ever put a barrel in your ultrasonic cleaner? Just curious.

Len
Yes but I hang it with 2 plastic wire ties cradle like.  I use Kroil in my tank and heat it too.  I'm not sure if it is just the Kroil doing all the work. 
The barrel usually cleans out with 1 or 2 passes of a Chore Boy infused brush.
- Dave
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by mikemyers on Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:13 am

Good idea, but none of my Lewis parts are small enough.

I cut off a finger from a "surgical glove".  Seals the barrel perfectly.  Before I try that, I put some of the glove in a glass with Hoppe's.  I don't want the surgical glove to "melt" and make a bigger mess than I have now.


I do have an ultrasonic cleaner, but no Kroil.  Yet.
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by tomd999 on Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:33 am

Mike,

The Lewis remover is the best option for this. I have one and have used it over the years. I had a lot of Zero HBWC's that would lead like that. When you use the tool, push from the muzzle end, that way you strip the lead out in the reverse direction from how it was layered on by the bullets, it will come out with less force that way.

A small tip for people that have a LLR, the brass screens aren't "special weave" they are tobacco pipe screens with a hole in the center. You can make your own by going to a smoke shop and getting a bag of fine mesh screens then use a single hole paper punch to make the hole. Last time I bought a bag of 100 it cost me 6 bucks. 

Tom

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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by J.Ack on Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:34 am

mikemyers wrote:
Any ideas on how I can plug up the end of the barrel, so I can fill it with Hoppe's?
 

I've used Ramrodz (bore sized q-tips) soaked in Kroil to plug the barrel at the point of the worst leading then sprayed more Kroil into the barrel. After it sat overnight the lead came right out with a brass bore brush. This keeps the Kroil in contact with the lead and minimizes the amount you need.

Jason

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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by mikemyers on Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:44 am

J.Ack wrote:
........to plug the barrel at the point of the worst leading then sprayed more Kroil into the barrel. After it sat overnight the lead came right out with a brass bore brush. This keeps the Kroil in contact with the lead and minimizes the amount you need.
I agree, will do the same, but the Kroil won't be here for a week, so I will see what happens with Hoppe's.

A quick trip to Ace Hardware, and here's what I've got now...

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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by Wobbley on Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:56 am

What are the make of your bullets in your reloads?  Some of the HBWC could use a little more lube than is provided.  Jerry Keefer would clean the factory lube off and relube with Lee Liquid Alox or the 45-45-10 mixture.  

But since you now have this problem, you’ll need to remove the lead.  The Lewis Lead Remover is the best option.  Kroil will actually loosen copper fouling.
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by mikemyers on Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:16 am

Bullets are Magnus Bullets, #514, 148 grain, .357" diameter.  I also shot a box of 50 reloads from someone at our club, who makes reloads for club members.  He makes his own bullets.  The bullets I make come out as clean and nice as I know how to make them.  This other box didn't "look" that great.  In retrospect, I wish I hadn't used them.

The part I need for my Lewis Lead Remover should be here by the end of next week.  It has already been shipped by MidwayUSA.  The expected delivery is April 26.
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by desben on Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:51 am

It's been said... Chore Boy pure copper wrapped around a regular brush will make short work of that lead. 1-2 minutes and it'll be gone. Find it in the cleaning section of your grocery.
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by Aprilian on Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:49 am

desben wrote:It's been said... Chore Boy pure copper wrapped around a regular brush will make short work of that lead. 1-2 minutes and it'll be gone. Find it in the cleaning section of your grocery.
emphasis added to differentiate from copper-coated steel Chore Boy
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by mikemyers on Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:22 pm

For me, "Plan A" is to leave it soaking in Hoppe's until tomorrow morning, then use the cleaning kit wire brush, then repeat as needed.  "Plan B" is to do this with Kroil, but that won't arrive for a week.  "Plan C" which many of you have been mentioning is the Lewis Lead Remover.  Plan C might work best if I use the Kroil ahead of time.  That sounds like the best tool for the job, so if I had everything here, it ought to be my "Plan A".

I watched lots of videos about it - sorry now I didn't just order a whole new kit, not that much more money.  Anyway, this seems to be the best video for me to follow.  So many people have mentioned how hard it is to pull the tool through the barrel.  I'm not that strong.  The idea of using a vice to hold the barrel sounds great, and I will start off with the "tightening nut" backed off all the way.  



I wish I had an extra barrel around to practice with.
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by mikemyers on Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:21 am

Update.  My barrel, filled half ways with Hoppe's, has been sitting outside in a tall thin glass with the rubber stopper plugging up the business end.  I resisted the temptation to check it before going to sleep.  It's now been there for 20 hours or so - took it out, used the brass brush, and used patches.  

The patches didn't come out as filthy as I expected, but when I look through the barrel, it seems like less than half of the lead is still there.  Maybe it's getting disolved??  set things up again, and will either check late today, or most likely tomorrow morning.  


I like the way this is working.  I'll probably go back to Ace Hardware and get two more rubber stoppers, if I ever need one for my 1911 barrel.  At $ 0.38, that's nothing.
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by davekp on Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:28 am

You could try an acetone/atf (automatic transmission fluid) mix, 50/50. A very good mixture for loosening rusted nuts. Or, vinegar/peroxide mix, 50/50, but don't leave this mix in the barrel for more than a few minutes at first.

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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by mikemyers on Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:04 am

Thanks, but no thanks.  I'm not in a hurry, this is working, and by the end of the week my Lewis Lead Remover parts will arrive.  Who knows, by the time they get here, I might not even need them.
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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

Post by Guntrainer on Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:48 am


Brownell's Double Tuff bore brush. Does the job, no possible harm to bore of hard to replace barrel.

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Re: Barrel problem, S&W M-52

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