Lube thoughts from Jerry

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Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by jmdavis on Thu May 10, 2018 9:38 am

Back in 2016 I had run out of the oil that the previous owner and I used for my wad gun. I posted here, asked questions to different people and finally spoke with Jerry Keefer about it. 

What he told me led me to Marvel Custom Oil, aka. Marvel Machinegun Oil, aka MFR7 gun oil. But he also included the following note in an email when I asked how much oil I should use. I bought the last 3 bottles of Marvel Custom Oil in 2016. They ran out two weeks ago. 

"Andy Moody, who is one hell of a Marine shooter, and mentor to Zins was asked about oiling at a Zins Clinic.
He stated," I keep adding oil until it's dripping on the bench..""


Good advice, I think.
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by Ed Hall on Thu May 10, 2018 5:06 pm

That falls in line with the description I was taught and always pass on:

"The proper amount of oil for the 1911 allows one drop to fall from the bottom of the magazine as the gun is raised to the target."

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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by Mike38 on Thu May 10, 2018 8:21 pm

When I first started shooting Bullseye a guy advised me on proper lubrication of a M1911. At the break between center fire and .45 he asked to see my right arm. Confused, I held out my arm, and it was covered in little droplets of oil. He smiled and told me I'm using the correct amount of oil.
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by Bigtrout on Fri May 11, 2018 7:28 am

I must be doing something right....after 40 rounds the FF3 needs oil spray cleaned off the lens.
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by zanemoseley on Fri May 11, 2018 7:34 am

Yeah oil spray on the red dot lenses sucks pretty bad.

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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by Bullseye_Stan on Fri May 11, 2018 7:54 am

Having some guidance on where to lubricate the 1911 is also useful (http://www.bullseyepistol.com/oiling.htm):


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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by Ed Hall on Fri May 11, 2018 11:12 am

Bullseye_Stan wrote:Having some guidance on where to lubricate the 1911 is also useful (http://www.bullseyepistol.com/oiling.htm):
This is good for the top part, but remember that all those "trigger component" surfaces need lubrication, too.  I always coat all the internal parts with lubricant, as well.  I fully coat each one as I assemble it into the frame.

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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by jglenn21 on Fri May 11, 2018 12:22 pm

The main thing they missed lubing the lower lugs with a good grease
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by willnewton on Fri May 11, 2018 1:59 pm

MFR7 is great oil, it very thin and runny and leaves a film when it is dry.  Great for tight guns that run slow with a thick oil on the slide. 

Proper oiling means I see it weeping out the back of the slide/frame rails at the hammer when I am shooting. I am also probably feeling mildly guilty about the mess on the floor from application as well.

It is also a good lube and cleaner for polishing stones 

I have oil and grease for different things at home, but at the range the MFR7 is what is in the bag. It is very thin and is easy to flood an area to flush out any alibi generating crap.
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by mikemyers on Fri May 11, 2018 10:36 pm

jmdavis wrote:Back in 2016 I had run out of the oil that the previous owner and I used for my wad gun. I posted here, asked questions to different people and finally spoke with Jerry Keefer about it. 

What he told me led me to Marvel Custom Oil, aka. Marvel Machinegun Oil, aka MFR7 gun oil. But he also included the following note in an email when I asked how much oil I should use. I bought the last 3 bottles of Marvel Custom Oil in 2016. They ran out two weeks ago. 

"Andy Moody, who is one hell of a Marine shooter, and mentor to Zins was asked about oiling at a Zins Clinic.
He stated," I keep adding oil until it's dripping on the bench..""


Good advice, I think.
How literally serious are you guys?   I was always taught just enough lubrication, and no more.  From this thread, it seems like a good idea to drench the gun in oil.  Is that literally true, or ????   

I've always thought just enough oil, no more, as it will attract dirt.  From this thread it seems like that excess of oil will just flush any dirt out.  

Very different from most of the YouTube videos (from experienced people) I've watched.  


Also, for someone who hasn't yet learned how to take apart the trigger components (guilty), does one just pour on the oil from the top, and expect it to work its way down?
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by Wobbley on Fri May 11, 2018 11:19 pm

The old saw”just enough oil, no more as it will attract dirt” is hogwash. If there is ANY lube it will attract the same dirt.

With the gun well lubed( maybe to the point of dripping) the excess lube will carry the dirt and suspend it without it causing harm. You can literally dunk the gun in oil, pull it out, load it and shoot it and it won’t care. It won’t get any dirtier and will likely function longer than one that was lubed with a drop on the shiny spots.
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by john bickar on Fri May 11, 2018 11:50 pm

mikemyers wrote:
jmdavis wrote:Back in 2016 I had run out of the oil that the previous owner and I used for my wad gun. I posted here, asked questions to different people and finally spoke with Jerry Keefer about it. 

What he told me led me to Marvel Custom Oil, aka. Marvel Machinegun Oil, aka MFR7 gun oil. But he also included the following note in an email when I asked how much oil I should use. I bought the last 3 bottles of Marvel Custom Oil in 2016. They ran out two weeks ago. 

"Andy Moody, who is one hell of a Marine shooter, and mentor to Zins was asked about oiling at a Zins Clinic.
He stated," I keep adding oil until it's dripping on the bench..""


Good advice, I think.
How literally serious are you guys?   I was always taught just enough lubrication, and no more.  From this thread, it seems like a good idea to drench the gun in oil.  Is that literally true, or ????   

I've always thought just enough oil, no more, as it will attract dirt.  From this thread it seems like that excess of oil will just flush any dirt out.  

Very different from most of the YouTube videos (from experienced people) I've watched.  


Also, for someone who hasn't yet learned how to take apart the trigger components (guilty), does one just pour on the oil from the top, and expect it to work its way down?

Hey Mike,

I've been shooting for a while. Been around a bit.

YMMV, but I pay as much attention to the "IF IT AIN'T DRIPPIN' OFF YER ARM IT AIN'T ENOUGH OIL" school of thought as I do to the "IF YER USIN' A PISTOL, YA DUN FUCTUP A HUNDRED YARDS AGO" school of thought.

My guns run. It's important to me that they do, so I make sure that they do. I don't drench them in oil, but I don't care much one way or another if other people drench their guns in oil.
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by dronning on Sat May 12, 2018 1:01 am

I don't drench, but I adhere to the "better a little too much than not enough" school of thought.  Oiling is part of my match process.  I also tear down and clean after x number of rounds (depends on the powder I'm using) or just before my last couple of practice sessions before a big match, that way I can verify everything is GTG.
- Dave
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by jmdavis on Sat May 12, 2018 1:38 am

Since I started this one I will say this. I liberally oil the top of the barrel and bushing area with the slide back. I don’t scrimp on the rails. I sparingly  oil the lugs. I have never gotten oil on my scope, and I don’t want it dripping on my hands when I shoot. But it does drip on the bench. 

I run it wet because it is tight, so tight that even something as thin as tetra grease will cause malfunctions. No grease for the wadgun.  I run it wet because I regularly clean both gun and magazines. I have had issues with gunk, particularly lube building in magazines. My cleaning solution of choice is Kroil, a lube in itself, but one with solvent capabilities. 

I have notes that date back to the first time the gun was fired after it left the Curtis Shop in 1998. There is a record of matches, practice sessions, and cleanings. Alibis, failures and corrective actions are noted, for the pistol along with the loads and the loading equipment. I know how the loads and pistol reactvat different temperatures. So I have winter and summer loads. I can’t say that any of this is the best way, but it is a way that works. Other than trying to shoot summer loads in the pistol when the indoor temp was 42, it works reliably and accurately.
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by mikemyers on Sat May 12, 2018 3:52 am

I feel foolish for asking, but here goes anyway.  For someone who hasn't yet learned how to completely tear down a 1911, would it be a good or bad idea to lubricate around the hammer area above the trigger parts liberally, so oil will work its way down, hopefully lubricate everything, and leak out from the bottom?

I have found an excellent video on how to tear down, and re-assemble, a 1911, but I haven't yet gotten up the courage to do so.
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by Bullseye_Stan on Sat May 12, 2018 8:37 am

I've used this guys video on disassembly of the 1911 using no tools: 



I generally use a pin punch to remove the main spring housing pin and a bushing wrench, but everything else can be removed/reassembled using the information in this video.  YMMV, of course.

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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by willnewton on Sat May 12, 2018 9:46 am

mikemyers wrote:How literally serious are you guys?

You know, this is a legitimate question and merits some clarification for those that are not sure.  I will share what I do most of the time.

I do not run all my guns dripping wet.  I run my hard fit .45s wet. They simply have to be wet in order to work properly with 100% reliability, outside of ammo issues.

At home, the internals of the pistol are very lightly lubed during assembly with MFR7 and have ballpoint pen dot sized bits of grease at these interface points: barrel lugs/slide stop, sear/hammer hooks, sear spring tips, hammer strut/mainspring cap, and trigger frame/disconnector pad.  These parts will not be directly lubed again unless the gun comes apart for cleaning, etc.  MFR7 will dry to a film and collects very little crud.  TW25b grease however, will hold everything it touches.  I use very, very, very small amounts at a few specific places.

At the range before shooting, I lightly wet my 1911 at these points with MFR7:  the slide/frame, barrel muzzle/bushing, FLGR/plug, and wipe a bit on the external part of the barrel hood/chamber.  I usually flood the rails a quite bit and hand rack the slide few times to make sure crud is flushed out.  Yeah, there probably some oil drops on the floor after lubing the rails because MFR7 flows like crazy and I am intentionally flooding and flushing the frame rails.

The excess oil is expelled away from the gun and distributed into the internal workings as well.  That is why I don’t worry about the internals again unless the gun is in pieces.  If the gun has just been lubed, you can usually see the atomized lube getting airborne around the hammer as you dry fire.

For 1911 .22 conversions, I treat the internals as 1911.  I will usually lube the rails before shooting, but they are loose fit, so I don’t flood them.  It is not run wet.

For my Hammerli 215, I added a few dots of grease on the internals a year ago and put a few drops on the slide if it looks dry.  It is minimal lube job and the pistol stays fairly clean.  

For “service tolerance” guns, they get a lighter oiling as there is more play in the parts. Revolvers get the minimal treatment as well.  Also, I use a slightly “oilier” oil on these pistols than MFR7, as they are not in as much use and I want the lube to persist, unlike MFR7, which I reapply often on guns seeing lots of use.

So, all joking aside, there different amounts and types of lube for different purposes, but the jokes have a basis in reality.  As pointed out, a BE gun has to run perfectly  and a tight fit match pistol will need help.  Excess lube and collecting a bit of extra powder are not important during a match.

Also, once you have seen Zins’ match pistol and hear his cleaning regimen (which at the time was, “You guys clean these things?”), you don’t worry about cleanliness as much anymore, cycling is what matters.  Razz
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by Wobbley on Sat May 12, 2018 10:37 am

willnewton wrote:

Also, once you have seen Zins’ match pistol and hear his cleaning regimen (which at the time was, “You guys clean these things?”), you don’t worry about cleanliness as much anymore, cycling is what matters.  Razz

A retired SEAL team member I Shoot with said that they had the hardest time teaching their Marine Support Squadron NOT to clean their weapons prior to a patrol. After a cleaning they did a quick range session to make sure the weapon was fully functional then they insisted that they be left as fired. They could add lube but not clean. The rationale was you KNOW the weapon is functional. You DON’T after you clean it. There’s a lot of merit to that.
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by troystaten on Sun May 13, 2018 12:39 am

Wobbley's comment about the retired SEAL team member makes a lot of sense, the only time my model 41 gives me any grief is the first few shots after it has been cleaned.

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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by mikemyers on Sun May 13, 2018 1:03 am

Bullseye_Stan wrote:I've used this guys video on disassembly of the 1911 using no tools.....
Thanks for posting this video.  What I see though, is a pile of parts that I may or may not be able to re-assemble.  

Here are two videos that show disassembly and re-assembly.  I watched these a month ago, and they left me feeling confident that I could do what is shown, as he shows all the little tricks that are needed.  For someone who is used to doing this, it's probably the best way to clean and lube a 1911.  That's the reason I wanted to do it, but haven't yet gotten around to it (or built up the courage to try...).  I've learned a lot from this thread.  Apparently, even when I thought I was doing it correctly and fully, I wasn't.  I like the idea of taking it fully apart, checking and cleaning, and lubricating as it goes together.  After a dozen times, I guess this would be no big deal....

Dis-Assembly



Re-Assembly
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by mikemyers on Sun May 13, 2018 4:41 am

Watching these videos, it all looks easy.  I will get to find out.

Anyway, based on what you guys have said up above, do you take every one of these parts and wipe them down with oil, just before re-assembling?  If I understand the discussion, this will not create any problems, and I guess if dirt does get into the parts, it just means to do this whole procedure more often.

I assume that if all the parts are going to be liberally coated with oil, there is no need to put any oil anywhere on the frame.

(Do any of you use an ultrasonic cleaner to clean all the parts while the gun is taken down?)
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by Bullseye_Stan on Sun May 13, 2018 5:54 am

Often discussions such as these lead to a breakdown and become an 'oil thread', upon which no one agrees on which lubricant or application technique.  Good to see the denizens of this forum have risen above such mediocrity.  One note: upon ordering MFR7, I had my credit card information misused (i.e. stolen) from their official website in January of this year: https://progoldmfr.com/firearms-store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=72.  I recommend purchasing MFR7 at a gun show, Brownells, Midway, etc (which is what most do anyway).

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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by james r chapman on Sun May 13, 2018 8:05 am

Mike, don't get carried away with cleaning. Just pull the slide and flush away the grit and powder from the slide and frame with something other than water.
Then lube the lower lugs , put some oil on the rails and reassemble. Then oil in the suggested spots found on many threads and videos.

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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by BE Mike on Sun May 13, 2018 11:33 am

What? No WD-40?Twisted Evil
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Re: Lube thoughts from Jerry

Post by mikemyers on Sun May 13, 2018 11:50 am

james r chapman wrote:Mike, don't get carried away with cleaning. Just pull the slide and flush away the grit and powder from the slide and frame with something other than water.
Then lube the lower lugs , put some oil on the rails and reassemble. Then oil in the suggested spots found on many threads and videos.
Jim, I'll be doing as you suggested, that's mostly what I do anyway, but to be truthful, I have always wanted to take my 1911 apart "the rest of the way", and re-assemble it.  This seems like a good opportunity to do so.  Knowing what I knew only a year ago, that would have been a big mistake, unless I found someone to guide me.  With the videos, and feedback here, I'm feeling much more confident.

This thread has changed my thoughts about a lot of things.  Who knows, based on what I've learned here, maybe if I do it to my Les Baer I'll be able to rack the slide normally, no more need for an elephant to assist.


Bullseye Stan, good idea.  Nothing is totally safe, but I do feel comfortable ordering from Brownell's and MidwayUSA.  I always feel uncomfortable ordering from a small company using my computer, and giving my credit card info.  I feel safer doing this over the phone.  Sorry you had the problem - did they call you to notify you that their info was compromised?
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