Using the same trigger weight

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Using the same trigger weight

Post by tceva on Sat May 12, 2018 3:17 am

This is directed to those that are most accomplished, that use conversions.  How many of you use the same trigger, (weight, roll, etc.) in both your conversion and 45?
I was following a discussion between Paul (fpk) and Chris Miceli.  it makes sense, especially  for those of us that are trying to "become one with the trigger".
Thanks in advance
Alex
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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by CR10X on Sat May 12, 2018 4:22 am

Been doing it for about the last 15 years.  Just one more thing that reduces changes from .22 to CF / .45.  And it makes the transition to Service Pistol / EIC a little easier too.  Plus (in my opinion) the conversions seem to have less problems when the gun / trigger systems are are "normal" weight than when trying to run 2+ lb triggers. 

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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by tceva on Sat May 12, 2018 4:46 am

Thanks Cecil,
I was hoping you would respond.  Now to find my bag of springs.
Alex
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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by fpk on Sat May 12, 2018 5:04 am

+1000 for what Cecil said. It was all mental and gave me an excuse to believe that shooting the 45 was "different".

If I could start over again, get a 45 and a conversion. Shoot that until you make master. Might not have shortened the time it took, but it sure would have been cheaper!

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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by tceva on Sat May 12, 2018 5:55 am

Paul,  Like everyone else I had to fill a safe full of guns to figure out what works.
Thanks for sharing your experience.  It's going to be hard to put down my Hammerli.
Alex
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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by Bullseye_Stan on Sat May 12, 2018 6:13 am

In the last couple of months I scored a Master level shooter (score to the right situation) where he was shooting a Hammerli 208 with a 45 grip conversion.  The reason I know, and for some reason clearly discerning pistol models isn't that easy in a match, is that I asked if he was shooting a .22 conversion.  He told me it was a Hammerli.  When I examined the pistol more carefully, it was a Hammerli 208 or 208s with the 45 grip conversion.

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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by tceva on Sat May 12, 2018 6:46 am

Stan,
When I got my first Hammerli, I was told "you will never go back".  If I was to shoot only rim fire, I would have to agree.  A Hammerli 2 stage trigger is hard to beat.  I have a lot of trouble when I pick up a 45 after shooting it.  2 completely different triggers and weights.  Maybe a few more will offer some input. i am curious just how many expert+ level shooters use the same trigger weight.
I could turn up the weight on my hammerli, but it is still not the short roll of my 45.
Alex
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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by Bullseye_Stan on Sat May 12, 2018 6:57 am

Oh sure, everyone must find their own path.  I think that's why the Nelson/Marvel conversions are so popular.   If using the same trigger is important, a conversion unit on the wad gun lower makes the most sense to me.  I can't say it's not possible, but trying to get the same trigger on two different guns is a tricky rabbit to catch.  IMO, of course.

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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by Steve B on Sat May 12, 2018 7:22 am

With my first 22 conversion I had the trigger setup with a medium-long roll at 3.25 - 3.5 lbs, very close to the 45.  When switching to a Hammerli 208s that trigger was also setup the same way.  Now I'm having a new lower built for a 22 conversion that will also be at or just under 3.5 lbs with a long roll.  My 45 will be going back to it's maker so that both triggers will be as nearly identical as possible.

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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by CR10X on Sat May 12, 2018 7:28 pm

Each person will have to find their own way.  For some shooters it works having different triggers (feel and weight) and doesn't really make much differnce.  For others it makes some difference, for others even more.

For me, it wasn't really the weight as much as switching between a "pivoting" type trigger action and a "sliding" type trigger that made the transition even more different when going from Hammerli to 1911.  So when I started using a conversion on a 1911 frame for .22, I just started with the same weight as the .45.  

I can shoot a Hammerli or Beretta about the same as a 1911 frame if I have time to train for a couple of days; but the 1911 trigger action and standard weight just seems to be more comfortable for me.  So all my training is mostly on the same trigger action and weight.  It seems to help me, especially when shooting one day 2700s.

Again, just give it a fair try and see how it works out.  I'll generally try out changes like that for a year or so (roll trigger, focus on target or dot, frame / slide mounts or positions, grips, trigger shoes, etc.) and keep good notes in order to try and make a valid comparison.  Remember though, you don't just compare .22 scores, but the scores over the whole Grand Aggregate to see if it helps or not.  

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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by kjanracing on Sun May 13, 2018 7:51 pm

So, is anybody with a conversation using the same lower between the two? Same everything that way. I’m using a Colt lower with my Nelson and my Rock River for my 45, but it’s about a 2 minute changeover between the two.
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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by Jon Eulette on Sun May 13, 2018 8:45 pm

When I first got back into BE I used 45 lower for my Marvel conversion. I changed sear springs between 22 & CF though; 2# & 3.5#. Was breaking 2600 this way. 
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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by tceva on Mon May 14, 2018 2:31 am

Jon,
Your are much more accomplished at changing sear springs than I will ever be.  The consistency of the frame is  
another plus.  My conversion is on a RO lower, while my 45 is a LB.  Both have KC's triggers, that he tweeked for me.  I am hoping to bump up the weight on my conversion a bit, just to get closer to the 45.  I tote the LB around with me and dry fire when ever time allows.
Alex
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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by teg2658 on Mon May 14, 2018 6:14 am

I replaced a High Standard Victor with a complete Kart 22 and ended up with the trigger set at 2.75 lb, less of a transition from 22 to 45. Only ever played a bit with 38 for CF, my 45 scores were always better. Having a 1911 in my hands all the time made a big difference to my shooting.
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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by SW-52 on Mon May 14, 2018 7:26 am

is better between 2.75# or 3.5# if shoot 45???
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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by tceva on Mon May 14, 2018 7:55 am

teg2658 wrote:I replaced a High Standard Victor with a complete Kart 22 and ended up with the trigger set at 2.75 lb, less of a transition from 22 to 45. Only ever played a bit with 38 for CF, my 45 scores were always better. Having a 1911 in my hands all the time made a big difference to my shooting.
Tom Ginovsky
Thanks Tom,
It is starting to sound more like a plan for next year.  I am going to bump up the trigger weight on my conversion and start using it intermittently.
I really appreciate the input.
Alex
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Re: Using the same trigger weight

Post by teg2658 on Mon May 14, 2018 1:00 pm

Alex,
 I played with different trigger weights and ended up at 2.75 on the 22. Jackie Best did my gun work until he passed away in late 1992. He built a slide mount 45 for my wife and did a soft breaking trigger(Gold cup hammer which has a different pivot point for the strut), I tried it for a while and never looked back. Tried a KC roll trigger and it was not for me, but consider I shot a soft breaking trigger since the mid 80s. You have to play with triggers and weights to see what works best for you.
Tom

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