Grip / Trigger Control

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Grip / Trigger Control

Post by Boxturtle on Sun May 13, 2018 8:43 am

The information I need is out there, but I haven't found keywords to search on that find it.  I'm new to bullseye shooting, practice regularly, and have a case of the lefts.  My gun is correctly sighted in.  When I can keep the front sight centered in the notch, my shots group to center.  When a shot goes out, it goes left.  When the bad shot is fired, I see the front sight move to the left side of the notch just as the shot breaks (too late to stop).  I know what's going wrong, I just don't know what to do about it.

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Re: Grip / Trigger Control

Post by mspingeld on Sun May 13, 2018 8:51 am

http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/12PPC01.html

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Re: Grip / Trigger Control

Post by mspingeld on Sun May 13, 2018 8:51 am

These articles will take you a long way.

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Re: Grip / Trigger Control

Post by mikemyers on Sun May 13, 2018 1:01 pm

Boxturtle wrote:........When the bad shot is fired, I see the front sight move to the left side of the notch just as the shot breaks (too late to stop).....
I will bet you a cup of coffee that if you dry fire for a while, you will see the same thing, the front sight moving towards the left side of the rear sight.....    and that if you do this for an hour or so, you'll find that you can prevent it by finding the right part of your trigger finger to be resting on the trigger, and to learn how to apply pressure to the trigger directly towards you. Pretend you want to pull the front sight through the gap of the rear sight.  When you read all those articles, they will tell you what part of your trigger finger should be touching the trigger.

I'll bet you a second cup of coffee, again during dry fire, that if you get to JUST before the gun fires, if you move your trigger finger away from the trigger, the front sight will move the other way, towards the right side of the rear sight.

While you're thinking about this, hold up your gun, dry-firing, and with your trigger finger put pressure on the trigger to force it to your left, and then to your right, and you will see what is probably happening.


(This was one of my problems for a while, and knowing what it was, along with feedback here, helped tremendously on minimizing it.  I won't say it is cured yet, just that it is much better than before.)
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Re: Grip / Trigger Control

Post by Allgoodhits on Sun May 13, 2018 7:19 pm

Given that the trigger finger is the interface between the human and the mechanical, then it must be manipulated so as to pull/press the tigger in a manner so as NOT to disturb otherwise proper sight alignment on aiming area, when pulled/pressed. Thus finger placement on trigger, determines the best hand placement on that gun with those grips in order to accomplish this. After this has been established, and verified then, repeating this finger position enabling learned grip, should duplicate the proper position of the finger back to the trigger. It this cannot be identified and duplicated, then you may need a longer or shorter trigger, or different grips. 

For me identifying the finger placement first, is paramount, then the hand position on the grips just works itself out, unless the grips are just way wrong for you. If you can learn to do this, then you can pick up almost any gun, and after a few dry fires to identify the proper ( for you) interface with the trigger finger on the trigger, you will shoot it well. Of course to get maximum results, more may be involved.
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Re: Grip / Trigger Control

Post by Jack H on Mon May 14, 2018 1:26 am

Allgoodhits wrote:Given that the trigger finger is the interface between the human and the mechanical, then it must be manipulated so as to pull/press the tigger in a manner so as NOT to disturb otherwise proper sight alignment on aiming area, when pulled/pressed. Thus finger placement on trigger, determines the best hand placement on that gun with those grips in order to accomplish this. After this has been established, and verified then, repeating this finger position enabling learned grip, should duplicate the proper position of the finger back to the trigger. It this cannot be identified and duplicated, then you may need a longer or shorter trigger, or different grips. 

For me identifying the finger placement first, is paramount, then the hand position on the grips just works itself out, unless the grips are just way wrong for you. If you can learn to do this, then you can pick up almost any gun, and after a few dry fires to identify the proper ( for you) interface with the trigger finger on the trigger, you will shoot it well. Of course to get maximum results, more may be involved.

I am opposite on trigger finger placement leading to grip.  Yes the grips can be way wrong. 

I grip to hold naturally in alignment as number one priority.  And to manage the recoil the best. 
I can then adapt the trigger and my trigger finger placement and motion to pull straight back.  Placing the trigger at the pad or at the harder part near the joint is not as important to me as natural alignment.  In other words I think it is easier to adapt the trigger finger, than it is to adapt the grip into natural alignment.
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Re: Grip / Trigger Control

Post by mikemyers on Mon May 14, 2018 5:33 am

Boxturtle wrote:The information I need is out there, but I haven't found keywords to search on that find it.  I'm new to bullseye shooting, practice regularly, and have a case of the lefts.  My gun is correctly sighted in.  When I can keep the front sight centered in the notch, my shots group to center.  When a shot goes out, it goes left.  When the bad shot is fired, I see the front sight move to the left side of the notch just as the shot breaks (too late to stop).  I know what's going wrong, I just don't know what to do about it.
Suggestion - hold the gun to the best of your ability, and deliberately aim the gun a little to your left.  If you are holding the gun reasonably still, you will see the front sight moving to the left in the rear sight.  If you take a shot like that, your bullet will make a hole to the left of the bullseye.  Then do the same thing to the right.  This time your hole will move off to the right.

As you wrote, this is happening just as the shot breaks (too late to stop).  There may be something else going on, but if your trigger finger is not pressing directly towards the rear, this will happen.  Luckily for you, it will also happen if you do everything the same way, but dry-fire.  Just watch the sights as you fire.  Once you find what part of your trigger finger to use (I've been told to use the first joint, which is the hardest part of the trigger finger, not the fleshy part that is soft and soggy) you will get better.  After a lot of practice, you will continually improve, and this should show in your targets when you go back to the range.  All the other stuff mentioned in this thread is ALSO critical, but if you don't fix what your trigger finger is doing, everything else including sighting is wasted effort.    IMHO (and many, many people here know far, far more about this than I do!).
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Re: Grip / Trigger Control

Post by Jack H on Mon May 14, 2018 6:32 am

You can also set your finger by pumping the trigger.  Get your grip and position.  Align your sights.  Then under dryfire conditions, press and let off your trigger several times with a pressure similar to a real trigger break.  Keep experimenting until you do not see the sights move when you press OR when you let off the pressure.  That pad vs hard spot I say don't worry about it.   You might, in the end evolve into the hard spot.  Which is fine.  But your grip probably evolved as well
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Re: Grip / Trigger Control

Post by mikemyers on Mon May 14, 2018 10:27 am

Jack H wrote:You can also set your finger by pumping the trigger..........under dryfire conditions, press and let off your trigger several times with a pressure similar to a real trigger break.  Keep experimenting until you do not see the sights move when you press OR when you let off the pressure. ......
I found this by accident, and didn't have a name for it, and when I mentioned it in another forum I got laughed at, but RELEASING the trigger finger was wonderful about indicating any sideways pressure on the trigger.  

It sounded silly, but it worked for me.  Now I no longer think it's silly - when I release the trigger, if there was any sideways pressure on the trigger, the gun will spring back to where it's supposed to be.  Made it obvious that I wasn't doing things right.

"Pumping the Trigger" - you found a good name for this!
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