Getting started

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Getting started

Post by Clamps on 5/22/2018, 7:32 pm

Hey all. New to the forum and a new, growing interest in bullseye shooting. 

I've poked around some and gathered quite a bit of info. What really has me stumped though is the gun itself. More specifically a 1911. My first true love. It's always informal, fun paper plinking with a Colt series 80. More recently a used Kimber which has not endeared itself to me despite it's price tag....
 So, I've been practicing. Usually dry firing a couple times a week, once a week to the range for live fire. Learning the basics. 

Here's the rub....I have got this bug in my head that keeps saying that an accurized pistol would give me better feedback. 
 
The question being do I get one of my existing pistols spruced up by a smith or do I start with a new pistol and get that tuned? 

 Sounds simple enough but I do need help from folks that have traveled down this road. 

 Where do I find a qualified gunsmith? 

 Help

 Thanks

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Re: Getting started

Post by Tim:H11 on 5/22/2018, 7:44 pm

I have seen it done either way... start over completely or accurize what you have. The ones that started fresh probably got a better gun in the long run but rarely ever shot the others because they just weren’t in the same neighborhood in terms of accuracy. And let’s face it, an accurate gun is a fun gun. I would weigh cost options and go with what feels right. My gun is a Springfield Armory Mil Spec that was completely done over. Problem is they’re like guitars. We always want another. And another...
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Re: Getting started

Post by HogCommander on 5/22/2018, 7:54 pm

Strongly recommend a high quality .22 conversion for your 1911 such as a Marvel Unit 1 or Nelson.  Feed it CCI Standard Velocity.  That combo will help you develop your skills while you decide whether to buy or recondition.

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Re: Getting started

Post by Wobbley on 5/22/2018, 8:08 pm

My thoughts. Get the Colt accurized. The Series 80 trigger safety feature I has been figured out by the better smiths by now and really isn’t going to affect the trigger. Choose a Bullseye Smith like KC Crawford, Jon Eulette, Dave Salyer and several others. Years ago I’d have suggested Clark hands down, but their stuff isn’t seen as often except for the older ones and they’re showing their age. Use the Kimber as a lower for 22 conversion if that’s the way you decide to go.
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Re: Getting started

Post by Clamps on 5/22/2018, 8:43 pm

Thanks for the input fellas. 

What's a ballpark number for a well tuned 1911 from an experienced bullseye smith?

Clamps

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Re: Getting started

Post by Clamps on 5/23/2018, 5:06 pm

Well, I did some looking around and the $$ are out of my league. That's OK, I asked what you would do and ya'll were good enough to share your experience. That's valuable stuff right there and it's appreciated. 

Looks like another strategy is order. My fall back position will start with investigating local smiths that can get me moving in the right direction. A peacemeal approach will have to do.

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Re: Getting started

Post by Wobbley on 5/23/2018, 5:14 pm

Ask a decent smith what he’d charge for a bullseye fitted barrel and bushing and a Rock River Arms rib mounted on the slide. This will allow you to get to Expert at least with the minimum outlay. Add a Ultradot Matchdot2 and you’d be set.
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Re: Getting started

Post by Clamps on 5/23/2018, 6:39 pm

Thanks Wobbley. Having folks help direct me is way easier than just muddling through this.

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Re: Getting started

Post by BE Mike on 5/24/2018, 7:57 am

I started bullseye pistol shooting a Ruger MK I. That's all I could afford at the time. I changed the grips and worked on the trigger some. My centerfire/ .45 gun was a Colt Series 70 Gold Cup. I wasn't doing any accuracy testing at the time. Once I was in the sharpshooter class, it didn't seem like the gun/ammo were accurate at 50 yards. I was shooting a match at Ft. Sam Houston in San Antonio. There were some "big guns" there from the All National Guard Shooting Team. My Gold Cup had a mechanical failure. Ken Buster, who was shooting next to me, looked at my Gold Cup and asked their armorer to see if he could fix it. Ken loaned me his back-up accurized 1911. He advised me that if I were serious about competing, I needed an accurized pistol. After shooting his amazing back-up pistol, I was sold. I sold the Gold Cup (along with a few other guns) and ordered a Clark Heavy Slide, built on a Colt Series 70 Government Model. This was when Jim Clark Senior was running the operation. It didn't take me long to make expert, after that. It took me a long time  for me to make master, but it wasn't because the gun wasn't capable.

After that long story, I'll just say, if your budget is tight, shoot the .22 matches. If you think you will be a regular competitor and want to invest money in the game, you'll need a centerfire pistol that'll shoot at least in the ten ring at 50 yards and you'll want one with a good feeling trigger and good sights. There are a few ways to go about it. You can buy used, get what you have accurized by a true bullseye pistolsmith (to any degree you can afford) or buy an accurized pistol, like I did, from a bullseye pistolsmith. Wobbley gave you some good leads.

Check out this great website: http://bullseyepistol.com
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Re: Getting started

Post by fpk on 5/24/2018, 8:58 am

Springfield Range Officer and an Advantage Arms 22 Target conversion. Buy Range Officer for around $700, the conversion from one of the discount resellers, and get an extra 22 magazine and scope rail top from Advantage Arms directly. Will cost around $1150 total for everything.

Then you want someone who knows what they are doing to do a "trigger job", tune extractor, replace springs and replace bushing. This will shoot better than you until you make master, at least. Looks like you are in Tampa, FL, and unfortunately I cannot personally recommend who to go to that is local who are going to be reasonably priced (for what you are looking for) and can fit you in soon (less than months).

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Re: Getting started

Post by willnewton on 5/24/2018, 9:22 am

There are many threads on this forum that would advise a new BE shooter to simply put away the .45 for BE and buy a .22 target pistol or a good conversion for your .45.  They would be correct.

Of course you have a bug in your head that it is the pistol’s fault.  No one likes to find out that they are not great shots with one hand at long distances and immediately blame the pistol.  As a new BE shooter, the chances that you are outshooting your stock pistol are almost none.  A good trigger job will help a bit if you have a crappy trigger, but it will not transform you into a ubershooter overnight.

Sorry, but it ain’t the pistol.  Don’t believe me?  Put your gun on a sandbag and as carefully as you can with two hands take as much time as you need to shoot ten rounds.

Now stand up with one hand and shoot ten rounds.

Observe the difference.  Realize the truth.  Now, go get a .22 with a good trigger and shoot BE with it until you can shoot close to Sharpshooter/Expert level.  A .45 is going to teach you very little except how to flinch reliably.  You need to learn how to pull the trigger WITHOUT moving the sights.  A lot of .22 trigger time and dry fire will help that.

Not saying not to go all out and bling it to the hilt, just saying all the money you spend won’t make much difference in your score at this stage.  No one likes to hear it, few people believe it, and the rest deny it!

Bullseye is not about removing the shortcomings of your equipment, it is about removing the shortcomings between your ears.
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Re: Getting started

Post by Chris Miceli on 5/24/2018, 9:30 am

If you are serious about bullseye and want to be competitive. I recommend buying high quality and accurate. A 22 that fits you...not the based off the brand attached to it. Do the same 45, as well as ammo to match those pistols. Then you will have no doubt about your equipment and can only blame yourself and the poor execution of the fundamentals. Piece of mind to worth a bit of money.. for me anyways.

As you get into bullseye, you could end up dumping thousands of dollars a year into travel expenses, match fees, reloading equipment, reloaded or factory ammo and your most valuable resource... time. 
Now i'm not sure about you but i knew instantly that i loved bullseye. I only wish i would of heard this advise from the very beginning. 

Buy the best you can afford. Buy once cry once.  Used pistols is a cost effective way of getting quality gear.
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Re: Getting started

Post by LenV on 5/24/2018, 9:46 am

I guess I will throw my .02 into the pot. You have a lot of choices in .22. Browning, Ruger and S&W make current production pistols that will shoot High Master scores. Some, like the model 41 and the Browning target need very little or no trigger work. Almost all the Rugers could benefit from a trigger job/replacement. As far as a current production .45 that will shoot Master scores out of the box your looking at The Springfield Armory Range Officer for around 800.00 or 1800.00 Les Baers or even pricier choices. The RO will take you to Master. Somewhere/sometime on your journey send your Colt to a good smith to be turned into a HM pistol and in the mean time spend all the money you save on ammo or reloading equipment. Just my .02

Len
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Re: Getting started

Post by willnewton on 5/24/2018, 10:06 am

These three companies are generally accepted “good for Bullseye” 22 conversions. Do NOT get a Kimber conversion or most any other type. They look similar on the surface, but are not the same and will not match these in quality or accuracy. These are designed for target shooting, not plinking.

Nelson https://www.nelsoncustomguns.com

Marvel-Unit 1 https://www.marvelprecision.com/marvel-unit-1/

Advantage Arms http://www.advantagearms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=AASOS&Category_Code=1911
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Re: Getting started

Post by jmdavis on 5/24/2018, 10:21 am

You've gotten some excellent advice. Learn with the 22. But when you start shooting expert/Master (810-860) scores with it, don't be afraid to shoot the 45. The scores will start lower, but they will rise with time. Another thing is that Classification doesn't matter, mastery does. Classification cards will show up if you shoot matches and improve. But they are not the goal. The goal is mastery of the act of firing a shot. If you master the process, you will improve.  

As Lanny Bassham says, "Learn to shoot a 10 so that you know how you got it.... Then do it again and again." 

Finally, download the Marine Corps Pistol Workbook and start using it with the 22. You can find a link for it at the top of the Fundamentals section of this forum. If it confuses you or seems too difficult, look at the books by Anthony Bellipani at Distinguished Precision Sports. He has an intro manual to get shooters to the point that the USMC workbook is doable. He also has a rewritten version of the Workbook that is more focused to civilians who are 20 something and don't have 8 hours a day to shoot, i.e.
 most of us.
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Re: Getting started

Post by Clamps on 5/24/2018, 11:38 am

Everyone has been very generous with their time, experience, knowledge and suggestions.
Many thanks to all.
All this excellent advice has not fallen on deaf ears.
I'll be hitting the rimfire section of gun cases this weekend.

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Re: Getting started

Post by IT1 Wes on 5/25/2018, 8:02 am

I agree with the 1911 .45/.22 conversion kit. It's usually less than two separate pistols, and you get used to one grip, trigger, etc.

Dry firing is essential. Practicing with an air pistol is a good, inexpensive pursuit. I started with pellet pistols but settled on a steel BB CO2 pistol replica of the 1911. It's the new Sig Sauer, "We the People," replica air pistol available at Pyramyd or Amazon. 

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Re: Getting started

Post by Clamps on 5/28/2018, 1:43 pm

Scoured my local gun shops and bought into a Buckmark target. Besides the S & W mod 41 it was the only rimfire pistol that had a pretty decent trigger. 

Wanted to thank every one again for their guidance. 

Any suggestions for snap caps?

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Re: Getting started

Post by Slartybartfast on 5/28/2018, 3:55 pm

Clamps wrote:Any suggestions for snap caps?

For .22lr? yellow plastic screw wall anchors.
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Re: Getting started

Post by Clamps on 5/28/2018, 4:24 pm

Thanks, sounds economical enough

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Re: Getting started

Post by IT1 Wes on 5/28/2018, 7:48 pm

Slartybartfast wrote:
Clamps wrote:Any suggestions for snap caps?

For .22lr? yellow plastic screw wall anchors.

Is there only one size of plastic wall anchors, if so, what size?
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Re: Getting started

Post by Tim:H11 on 5/28/2018, 8:44 pm

IT1 Wes wrote:
Slartybartfast wrote:
Clamps wrote:Any suggestions for snap caps?

For .22lr? yellow plastic screw wall anchors.

Is there only one size of plastic wall anchors, if so, what size?

No there are tons of different kinds but if you go to the hardware store and find the little yellow ones, they are about the size of a 22 LR cartridge and work nicely for rimfire snap caps. I’m not sure that you’ll see any that are too close in size to make a mistake because they’re the same color. Typically the difference in color is a difference in size or type and the differences are big enough to where you simply need the little yellow ones. You can’t get the wrong ones. Don’t worry.
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Re: Getting started

Post by LenV on 5/28/2018, 8:45 pm

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Re: Getting started

Post by fpk on 5/28/2018, 9:03 pm

These are the drywall anchors I use:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H5WVCS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The funniest thing is that half of the reviews talk about using them to dry fire rimfire guns!

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Re: Getting started

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