Shipping a firearm question.

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Shipping a firearm question.

Post by kjanracing on 6/1/2018, 10:04 pm

I sold my 52-2, shipp8ng it to a guy back east. I’m not going to ship through a FFL. I have the paperwork from the FFL I’m shipping to. I’ve read the UPS site on requirements for shipping a handgun. One of the reqs is to inform the driver or counter person that the box contains a handgun. Why? Do they treat it any differently, separate the package from the others? Secret stamp? The package can’t have any labeling that leads anyone to think there is a handgun inside. Does anyone know what the deal with that req is? 
Kurt
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by tceva on 6/2/2018, 5:01 am

Kurt,
I don't believe you have to notify the driver of what's in the box.  It has to go next day air, or air express.  Pretty expensive.  FFL's have more options.
Alex
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by apipeguy on 6/2/2018, 6:06 am

Next day with adult signature required. Last one cost me around a hundred dollars to ship. Going through an FFL may very well be less expensive.
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by cdrt on 6/2/2018, 6:54 am

The FFL is allowed to ship it via USPS in a flat rate box.  A whole lot less expensive.
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by Ljohns on 6/2/2018, 7:36 am

I ship through an FFL. He charges $10 plus actual postage and insurance. For most pistols he uses flat rate USPS boxes. I always have the shipment insured. It usually costs somewhere between $30 and $50 total.

I investigated doing it myself. The local USPS is a contractor site and they wanted no part of it. The local UPS is the same. I would have to go to a central facility even to do it. That wouldn't be very convenient for me and wouldn't save me (or the purchaser) any money.
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by kc.crawford.7 on 6/2/2018, 7:41 am

Kurt, you as a non FFL holder are not allowed to use USPS to ship a handgun period.
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by BE Mike on 6/2/2018, 7:43 am

Ljohns wrote:I ship through an FFL. He charges $10 plus actual postage and insurance. For most pistols he uses flat rate USPS boxes. I always have the shipment insured. It usually costs somewhere between $30 and $50 total.

I investigated doing it myself. The local USPS is a contractor site and they wanted no part of it. The local UPS is the same. I would have to go to a central facility even to do it. That wouldn't be very convenient for me and wouldn't save me (or the purchaser) any money.
As a non-FFL, shipping a handgun through the USPS is forbidden. The only way it can be done is FFL to FFL. It is a different story with UPS and FEDEX, but as mentioned, it is very expensive. I've never used this company, but it may be worth researching: https://www.shipmygun.com/go/
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by Magload on 6/2/2018, 11:15 am

Last gun I shipped the gunsmith only want it shipped to him UPS and I can understand this as USPS here is terrible probably is at his end also.  I called the FFL I use and they said sure they could ship it for $30 for me.  Took it to them and they packaged it up and said the USPS driver would be picking it up that same day.   I said sorry can't do it that way and ended up driving 40 miles to the UPS main center, the only place allowed to recieve it,  and paying them around $90.  At least I can track it unlike USPS who's tracking sucks.  Don
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by mpolans on 6/2/2018, 11:27 am

If If it’s an expensive handgun or one I care about I would *only* go through USPS *Registered Mail*.   It’s the most secure method available. You can insure stuff up to $50k (versus only $5k when using Priority Mail). USPS maintains a chain of custody for it, which makes it a lot harder to steal. Shipping anything above $900 in value would be cheaper than USPS Priority +insurance. Anyone advocating for anything else as a more secure or less costly (for items $900+) alternative likely doesn't know what they’re talking about. Though your ffl costs may vary. Mine doesn’t charge for outgoing shipments.


Last edited by mpolans on 6/9/2018, 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by lyman1903 on 6/2/2018, 5:13 pm

if you go with UPS, create an online account,  easy to do

generate the shipping label online, and you can put it on a CC, 

package, label, and either catch a driver (you can have a driver pick it up for an extra fee) or take to the nearest  hub
forget a UPS store,, don't waste your time, 

you can do the same for FedEx,  only you can drop off any any FedEx location, not just the hub,,


USPS is dealer only for handguns, 
I typically charge actual insured cost, and $25,  

I only use Registered Mail for MG's , (insured cost is too high for Priority)

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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by kjanracing on 6/2/2018, 6:33 pm

Thanks Lyman. I’ll be sending from my work via my UPS account. I know it’s more expensive than going through an FFL, but I can’t find one that will do it. 
My question was really asking about this statement in the UPS guidelines for shipping a handgun: 
“When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.”  Sooo, what might happen if I don’t tell him/her?  What happens if I do?
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by lyman1903 on 6/2/2018, 7:32 pm

I do not tell the driver anything,  other than here it is, it's prepaid, and insured,
I know the ladies at the hub, so they know I am usually shipping a firearm or ammo, but I have never declared, 

the regs may state I should,,but to me it is another chance to get it stolen, and I have been told the same by UPS employees,,,(fedex is horrible in this area, i try not to deal with them)

don't put Bob's Gun Shop on the label either,, I just ship to Bob's  attn the buyer,, 

now, if it shows up missing, as in tracking shows it stuck in a location more than a day etc, then when you  call the service center to see what's going on, be sure to tell them it is a firearm that is delayed or missing,,

they will find it quick,,

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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by james r chapman on 6/2/2018, 8:44 pm

my understanding is, if you don't declare it as a firearm, don't try to collect insurance if it's lost or stolen...
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by John McCormick on 6/3/2018, 12:01 am

My question was really asking about this statement in the UPS guidelines for shipping a handgun: 
“When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.”  Sooo, what might happen if I don’t tell him/her?  What happens if I do?


Your notification to them of the package's contents alerts their employee that overnight shipping is required. Federal law mandates that handguns shipped by non-FFL holders must go by common carrier, but it is silent as to time in transit. So, as long as the government is requiring the use of the common carrier, the common carrier might as well require the use of its most expensive service. They generally cite employee theft as the real reason, and the irony there is inescapable: some of our employees are thieves so you have to pay extra so as to limit their opportunity to steal your package. Now you could remain silent as to the contents of the package, ship it the cheapest way they have to offer, and still be in compliance with the law, but you'd be violating the terms of the contract you'd agreed to by shipping with them in the first place, and any future claim you might have would likely be declined. I'm sure many take that chance. 

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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 6/3/2018, 8:11 am

When I shipped a pistol via UPS, I didn't know about https://www.shipmygun.com/go/.  I've had a UPS account for some time, so after the local UPS rep told me I needed a copy of the FFL's license and the pistol needed to ship overnight I created a discrete label and dropped the package off at a local UPS shipping station.  I shipped second day ground with tracking, signature confirmation, and insured, which was the same shipping method used when the local FFL received the pistol.  At the time, the UPS website didn't state that a declaration of a firearm was needed.  Neither did the website state that a copy of the recipients FFL was required.  It may have stated that overnight delivery was needed.  One thing I noticed was that UPS limits the insurance value to $1000 for packages not shipped through a central hub. 

For whatever reason, all the FFL dealers and local gun shops couldn't help me out with shipping the pistol.  All were clueless or selectively ignorant about shipping.  Strangely, the https://www.shipmygun.com/go/ service has some of those same gun shops which would not ship the pistol when asked.


Last edited by Bullseye_Stan on 6/3/2018, 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Grammar)

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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by tceva on 6/3/2018, 8:53 am

Anyone used shipmygun.com?
Curious to see how it went.
Alex
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by 243winxb on 6/3/2018, 9:26 am

No gun label & fast shipping help keep handguns from being stolen.  https://www.thetrace.org/2018/02/stolen-guns-ups-shipping-companies    ATF link- https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by John McCormick on 6/3/2018, 11:36 am

Anyone used shipmygun.com?
Curious to see how it went.
Alex


Have checked into it but haven't used them as yet. I have one concern: their ad shows a box marked SMG. Is this the box you're supposed to use? If it is, how much of a stretch is it to think that somebody along the shipping route is going to figure out what those initials mean and steal the package? Given a choice I'd use my own plain box and their supplied label, but even that might be an identifier as to the contents. 

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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by lyman1903 on 6/3/2018, 12:14 pm

james r chapman wrote:my understanding is, if you don't declare it as a firearm, don't try to collect insurance if it's lost or stolen...


there is no way to declare it when generating a tag, 
 
the driver does not note it in any way when you give it to them, 

items insured over $1K will require a driver or clerk to sign,  (copy for them, copy for  you) otherwise, no requirement to prove what you are insuring,

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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by KB2MBC on 6/3/2018, 8:02 pm

Will in get X-rayed if put on a flight?

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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by willnewton on 6/4/2018, 7:13 am

It was suggested that this topic might be worth making into a sticky at the top of the sale forum.

I agree.

BUT a sticky should provide direct, proven instruction that can be referred to over and over.  It should also provide FULLY LEGAL methods, not some of the “Don’t ask, don’t tell” methods here.

I may assemble a sticky out of some of the posts here.  Also, can the group do a little Google Fu and find me GOOD solid info, links, and references on shipping or maybe make a tutorial style post?

I would like to see a couple more very clear, step by step walkthroughs on successful methods and a few less hypotheticals and questions.

I am not trying to derail the conversation here, keep at it, as I am learning a bit myself, but I would rather have some more instructional, than conversational info to build into a sticky if you get my drift.
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by lyman1903 on 6/4/2018, 8:41 am

Mr. Newton,, 

something like this??




https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/packaging-and-supplies/special-care-shipments/firearms.page?

this part is generic,,  not much to it,  basically box it well etc 

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms

UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.
The shipper must comply with and must ensure that each shipment containing firearms complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package, including, without limitation, age restrictions.


this part has some new info, since UPS used to accept MG's,, however it is cheaper to ship them USPS Registered as mentioned in a post above
Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment

Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921, will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air Services, specifically, UPS Next Day Air® Early, UPS Next Day Air®, and UPS Next Day Air Saver®. (Note: UPS Express Critical™️ Service is not available for firearms).
UPS accepts firearm parts for shipment, provided the part is not a "firearm" as defined under federal law; the contents of the package cannot be assembled to form a firearm; and the package otherwise complies with federal, state, and local law. (Note: Receivers or frames of a firearm and firearm mufflers/silencers (also referred to as suppressors) are considered "firearms" and are accepted for transportation only if shipped in accordance with UPS's requirements for shipping firearms.)
UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment. Firearms (including handguns) and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally. UPS Returns® Services are not available for packages containing firearms.
[size]

note, the info below, mostly generic, but pay attention to the part on what is actually on the label as far as name and company names,
when you generate your own pre paid label, you have the option for adult signature, and it will say that on the label, which meets their requirement, 
at the shop I work at, we also add a G21 sticker, so the drivers (supposedly) know it needs a 21 yr old or older person to sign, 
kinda redundant, since it is shipped adult sig required anyway[/size]
Packing and Labeling Requirements for Firearms

All firearms must be shipped in new corrugated packaging which meets the UPS Single Wall Box Strength Guidelines.
All firearms are to be packaged in accordance with UPS Packaging Guideline Specifications. Ammunition must be shipped separately from packages that contain firearms (including handguns).
Packages containing handguns must be separated from other packages tendered to UPS for delivery.
The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package containing a firearm, including a handgun or a firearm suppressor, and affix a UPS label requesting an adult signature upon delivery.
The labeling and outer box markings on all firearms shipments should not identify the contents as containing a firearm. Labeling, including the shipper's and consignee's abbreviated names on the shipping label or air shipping document, must be non-descriptive.


never take a firearm to a UPS store,,  or ammo,  they will just get your blood pressure up, 

Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS

Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup®, and Day-Specific Pickup), or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Firearms (including handguns) are not accepted for shipment via UPS Drop Boxes or UPS On-Call Pickup®, and may not be tendered to or dropped off at locations of The UPS Store®, any third party retailer, or any UPS Access Point™️ location.
When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
See the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service - United States and the UPS Rate and Service Guide in effect at the time of shipping ("UPS Terms") for information regarding firearm and ammunition shipments.



btw, knowing the folks at the hub sometimes helps,  UPS customer service has allowed handguns to be shipped ground,  for short distances, with out any issues, 
basically the distance was short enough that ground was the same time as next day air saver,  and that saved me and the customer a few $$$'s, 


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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by kjanracing on 6/4/2018, 1:32 pm

That is the page from UPS I'm following and referencing. I'm just stuck on the notification part.  If UPS shows up and I'm not here and my secretary gives him the box.....She doesn't know what is inside it.  In any case, it is boxed up, shipping label printed, just waiting on pickup.
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by james r chapman on 6/4/2018, 6:25 pm

I don't understand the confusion. It's clear.
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Re: Shipping a firearm question.

Post by willnewton on 6/4/2018, 7:23 pm

Stickified!

Very Happy
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