Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

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Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by mikemyers on Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:45 am

I saw this on the news this morning:
     https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/06/03/616586283/off-duty-fbi-agent-discharges-gun-on-the-dance-floor-injures-onlooker

I know the FBI agent's gun fired after it was dropped, but after watching in slow motion, it fired only after he grabbed it with his left hand, quickly, to retrieve it.  He then put it back into the holster on his right side, with his right hand, which to me means he was probably right handed.  So, how did the gun fire?  I got a screen capture, which is too blurry to tell much:



I'm speculating that "everyone" knows to hold a gun with the trigger finger indexed, and not near the trigger, but that is only with the hand we normally shoot with.  This fellow quickly picked up the gun with his left hand, and I'm guessing one of his fingers was inside the trigger guard.

I'm also surprised the safety wasn't on, but maybe that's normal for law enforcement?
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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by Wobbley on Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:43 am

I think it was a Glock. Their “safety” is a lever in the trigger. As soon as a finger has enough pressure to move the trigger the safety is off. Glock refers to this as a “Safe action”. Hardly.

Glocks. Are. The. Worst. And. I. Won’t. Have. One. Ever.
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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by james r chapman on Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:56 am

He pulled the d*%&n trigger.
WTF was he thinking?
J.Edgar probably rolling over...
Demonstrates lack of institutional control.
Is this our "new" FBI?
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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by mikemyers on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:18 am

That, or something got damaged when the gun fell the way it did.  

Most likely, you are 100% correct as I see it - he should have picked the gun up more carefully.  On the other hand, how well does a Glock react to being dropped that way?  It's plastic, right?  Well, composite.  

I don't understand, but I would have thought a gun would be much more "stuck" in the holster....


Last edited by mikemyers on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by lyman1903 on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:24 am

Wobbley wrote:I think it was a Glock.  Their “safety” is a lever in the trigger.   As soon as a finger has enough pressure to move the trigger the safety is off.  Glock refers to this as a “Safe action”.  Hardly.

Glocks. Are. The. Worst. And. I. Won’t. Have. One. Ever.


there are several brands that use the same 'safe action' 
all work well,  until someone does something stupid,, (as noted in video,,,)

not a big fan either, and I have 2, but use them as house guns,,never carried

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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by mikemyers on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:28 am

Does the person who was shot sue the FBI agent, Glock, or the FBI ??

I would like to think that were I to need to pick up a gun, regardless of any circumstances, with either hand, I would keep my fingers away from the trigger.  Makes no sense to me.  



Or, from another angle:
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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by dronning on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:46 am

mikemyers wrote:That, or something got damaged when the gun fell the way it did.  

Most likely, you are 100% correct as I see it - he should have picked the gun up more carefully.  On the other hand, how well does a Glock react to be dropped that way?  It's plastic, right?  Well, composite.  

I don't understand, but I would have thought a gun would be much more "stuck" in the holster....

There is a gun drop test all designs have to pass.  Composite guns are just as safe in regards to dropping and any metal gun.  As mentioned the Glock has a trigger safety that has to be depressed before it will fire - so bad job/training on the FBI's part.

Holster, there is a fine line of too much retention and not enough.  You sure don't want to have a gun get "stuck" when you need it, but then you don't want it falling out every time you bend over either.  Not sure if the FBI allows locking (push button) holsters but if that is what he had, he obviously didn't seat it into the locked position - training.
- Dave
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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:29 am

Since the striker of the Glock is not under any real tension until you draw the trigger back, there ain't a thing that can cause a discharge.
Some striker fired guns (like my XD) have the striker under full tension, but there is a firing pin block that has to move before the striker can contact the primer.  The lawyers and engineers have made great strides to insure that the guns are safe to drop, throw, kick.....
Some idiot had to pull the trigger.

The only ACCIDENTAL discharge I will accept is from my puppy and that would have been the result of MY NEGLIGENCE.
I was taught that any discharge of a firearm is the either intentional or NEGLIGENT.
I won't blame the gun for this guy's stupidity & has the gun actually been identified"
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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by gregbenner on Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:43 pm

Wonder if the agent will get much ribbing this morning at work?   ROGLMAO

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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by MarkOue on Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:03 pm

I am not an FBI Special Agent but I do know that it would be dumber than dirt to do back flips while armed.

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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by mikemyers on Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:14 pm

Maybe he had too much to drink, without which, he might have known better.

Things could easily have been much worse.
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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:18 pm

If you choose to drink you have the responsibility to put the keys, gun, any dangerous item away.
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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by Virgil Kane on Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:27 pm

STEVE SAMELAK wrote:
I was taught that any discharge of a firearm is the either intentional or NEGLIGENT.

I have had a Remington M-700 go off when the safety was released.  And I could duplicate that at will.  Did it the first and only time while loaded during deer hunting back in the early 1970's.  Neither intentional or NEGLIGENT on my part.
I will say that I have many Rem 700's and this is the only one that would do that until I fixed it.  
A reminder that all guns should be considered loaded and always pointed in a safe direction.

As far as our infamous FBI guy,  welcome to the smiling and easy going if somewhat dim witted new Officer Friendly.  

Virgil

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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by kjanracing on Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:27 pm

Yeah, surprised he had a gun in a bar.  He pulled the trigger when he tried to pick it up.  More anti gun fodder for the tards.
Kurt
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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:12 pm

Virgil Kane wrote:
STEVE SAMELAK wrote:
I was taught that any discharge of a firearm is the either intentional or NEGLIGENT.

I have had a Remington M-700 go off when the safety was released.  And I could duplicate that at will.  Did it the first and only time while loaded during deer hunting back in the early 1970's.  Neither intentional or NEGLIGENT on my part.
I will say that I have many Rem 700's and this is the only one that would do that until I fixed it.  
A reminder that all guns should be considered loaded and always pointed in a safe direction.

As far as our infamous FBI guy,  welcome to the smiling and easy going if somewhat dim witted new Officer Friendly.  

Virgil
If you look long enough you can find an exception to every rule.
Trust, but verify & never be on the dangerous end of any weapon, even if you know it's not loaded.
Sooner or later everything will happen.
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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by Keyholed on Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:54 am

Wobbley wrote:I think it was a Glock.  Their “safety” is a lever in the trigger.   As soon as a finger has enough pressure to move the trigger the safety is off.  Glock refers to this as a “Safe action”.  Hardly.

Glocks. Are. The. Worst. And. I. Won’t. Have. One. Ever.

Funny. I tend to be nervous around folks that need a switch to keep from shooting themselves.

Striker-fired guns, just like DA/SAs, DA revolvers, and single-action autos come with their own unique manual of arms, and safety pitfalls. Glock-alikes demand trigger discipline. DA/SAs require you to remember to use the decocker. SA autos are pretty unforgiving of forgetting to disengage the safety.

Not a single one is any more or less safe than the others.

mikemyers wrote:That, or something got damaged when the gun fell the way it did.  

Most likely, you are 100% correct as I see it - he should have picked the gun up more carefully.  On the other hand, how well does a Glock react to being dropped that way?  It's plastic, right?  Well, composite.  

I don't understand, but I would have thought a gun would be much more "stuck" in the holster....

Couple things.

(1) You can toss a Glock--or any other quality polymer gun--in a cement mixer, and it'll keep working just fine. There's a guy that torture-tested a G19 with mud, sand, and every other thing, and topped it off by dropping it out of an airplane. Gun worked fine. About the only way you could induce drop-damage like that in a Glock mechanism is by radically modifying the pistol with a fulcrum-based trigger bar replacement, . Which would be beyond retarded in a carry gun. In the stock mechanism, you could literally snip the spring pulling the trigger bar against the sear, while magically disappearing the firing pin block, and the sear arm of the trigger bar would still block the firing pin from reaching the primer. But even with an awful fulcrum trigger (the Zev kit, for instance), they go off as soon as they hit the floor.

(2) Retention without thumbsnaps (which would be uncommon in an IWB CCW holster) depend on the quality and design of the holster. For instance, my Raven Concealment Eidolon provides retention by applying pressure to the triggerguard.  It's adjustable by tightening a screw. I loaded 11 dummy 9mm cartridges into my G26, holstered it in the Eidolon, and tightened the screw until I could grab the holster (rather vigorously) shake it, without the gun falling out. Then I Locktite'd the screw. Other holsters do the same thing by squeezing the slide, without adjustment. If you buy a cheap POS, then yeah, it's going to fall out if you do a backflip. Or you can buy/wear a bad belt, or a non-CCW dress belt, and have a holster that rides too high, causing it to roll over the top of your waistband and let the gun fall out.

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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by apipeguy on Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:19 am

After our department transitioned to Glocks in 1990, I carried one for another 18 years at work. They are “safe” and do not fire when dropped. That gun fired when the very special agent put his finger on the trigger and depressed it. I told my wife “this is why I don’t do back flips when we are out dancing”.
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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by kc.crawford.7 on Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:20 am

I'm really tired of seeing this.  Admin, please explain to me how this is related to our sport.
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Re: Gun fired by FBI agent after the gun fell

Post by DavidR on Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:58 pm

Sorry this slipped by, the bullseye forum is for bullseye related topics ONLY, So everyone please remember this is not facebook. and keep your posts on bullseye related topics only.
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