Ultradot Matchdot 2

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Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by GaryWWhite on 6/7/2018, 12:48 pm

Hi Folks,

Well I'm going to shoot my first Bullseye ever on June 24th.  This is a NRA sanctioned 2700 match.  Here's what is going on.  I don't have any reloading equipment yet and will be shooting my SA TRP hopefully with red dot sights and 230 gr ball commercial ammo.  My question is this, does anyone else use the Ultradot Matchdot 2 sight and also do you normally mount it on the slide? I have this sight mounted to my S&W Mod. 41 and it works great but as you know this sight doesn't move on the upper.  If this is not a good fit could you recommend a better RDS set up.  I'm 68 and need the red dot. Also, have a question on size of MOA.  The Ultradot can go from 2 to 8. Just curious the MOA most widely used.  Sorry about all the questions but am reaching out to the experts for help!

Thanks,
Gary:)

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/7/2018, 12:52 pm

Majority of dot shooters like the feel of a slide mount. You see a lot of Ultradot 2s out there... not exactly sure why. Id say a pretty even split of people using either 2moa or 4moa dots.
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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by joy2shoot on 6/7/2018, 1:06 pm

"You see a lot of Ultradot 2s out there... not exactly sure why."  -- Probably affordability.

"pretty even split of people using either 2moa or 4moa dots."  -- Agree

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by troystaten on 6/7/2018, 1:12 pm

If you have time you might try Federal 185 Grain SWC gold medal match ammo, it will have a lot less recoil and will be easier to shoot especially in rapid fire.  I think there are some other quality lower power ammo out there from other sources such as Wilson combat as well.

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by Wobbley on 6/7/2018, 1:23 pm

I agree in the ammo. You have time to order from Roze Distributors.

http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RZD&Category_Code=ZBA-45ACP

I’d buy 500 and shoot some in practice. If you have a choice, pick the 185 JHP but the 185 or 200 SWC will do as well.
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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by Chris Miceli on 6/7/2018, 2:01 pm

joy2shoot wrote:"You see a lot of Ultradot 2s out there... not exactly sure why."  -- Probably affordability.

"pretty even split of people using either 2moa or 4moa dots."  -- Agree


The 1” ultradot which has been a 4moa only scope now is offered in 2moa. Not sure about the 30mm
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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by Dr.Don on 6/7/2018, 3:32 pm

The Matchdot II works great on the slide, but I would hesitate to use any red dot on a slide mount using full power 230 gr ball ammo.  You really need to try some 185 gr match ammo, which is much lower in recoil.  When you start reloading you can tune your loads to the gun.
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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by Aprilian on 6/7/2018, 5:48 pm

Get some lower power recoil springs too if you are going to try the Roze or Fed 185grn.

You will need some time to test the functioning and tune the spring to the load, before the match.

You'll have a ton of fun!!!
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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by GaryWWhite on 6/7/2018, 7:22 pm

Hey Guys, I've decided to pass on the RDS and will shoot my .45 ACP with irons.  I can still see the front sight well enough and I can also shoot my Mod 41 pistol which has the RDS aforementioned mounted on it.  I just plan on having fun and seeing what I can do.  Also, I just today, after the post ordered my reloading equipment for my .45.  It is a Lyman 8 station turret press with a Hornady case check powder feeder.  Yes, it will be slower than a progressive but I'm not in a race and want to make sure I throw accurate loads.  I also acquired a Hornady electronic powder measure to check accuracy.  I'm going to do a little steel challenge and USPSA and I do mean a little.  The RDS would do well in the steel challenge; however, I would have to compete in the open class in USPSA with a RDS mounted.  I will be able to compete in single stack with my current SA TRP.  I am taking your advice (when I receive my reloading equipment) to load possibly a 185 gr LSWC with a recommended 4.0 of bullseye with Winchester primers and assorted brass.  I was told this was a very accurate load for BE.  I would be open to any other loads you might recommend.  I'm going to be getting my bullets from Missouri Bullet Co about 18 miles from home and try them out. I am cheap and will travel there to save on shipping costs.  Starline Brass is also located in Missouri about 65 miles from home.  There new brass is almost as cheap as the used brass!! If I new of a way to recover the brass after a shoot I would probably go with their new brass.  Anyways, I'm excited about getting into reloading and to see what magical load I can whip up for the .45acp which will surely give me 10's and X's :lol!Surprised.   I had WC do a reliability package on my SA TRP before I got the bug to shoot bullseye (which is just about a WC gun sans the frame and slide).  The lighter loads I will be shooting will probably mean a MSH and recoil spring change out.  I spend all this money on this one gun as I don't want to shoot my Wilsons!! Duh!! I'm sorry about rambling but just excited about my first experience in this new game.  Best regards to all and thank you for all the great information.
Gary:shock:

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by Wobbley on 6/7/2018, 7:50 pm

If you’re going to Missouri Bullets, take a good look at the “Button” 185 gr bullet. This is a near duplicate of the 185 JSWC used in Factory match ammo for many years. Some say it is more accurate than the lightweight H&G 68.
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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by GaryWWhite on 6/7/2018, 8:35 pm

Hi Wobbley,

These are the bullets I am ordering quoted from Missouri Bullets web page:
".45 Button - Hi-Tek .452 Diameter .45 ACP 185 Grain SWC Flat-Base Brinell 12. A Classic, very accurate! For Bullseye Velocity Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating".  We shall see about its accuracy, my friend!!

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by Keyholed on 6/7/2018, 11:04 pm

GaryWWhite wrote:Hey Guys, I've decided to pass on the RDS and will shoot my .45 ACP with irons.  I can still see the front sight well enough and I can also shoot my Mod 41 pistol which has the RDS aforementioned mounted on it.  I just plan on having fun and seeing what I can do.

Correct answer found.

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by mikemyers on 6/8/2018, 12:30 am

I'm by no means an expert, but if you're still considering red dot, check into the Aimpoint H-1 or H-2 micro.  One of the people I most respect on this forum told me of problems during a match with the Matchdot, and Aimpoint (with the Kodiak mount) seems to be a better option, if one accepts the higher cost.  I now have one of each - and my preference is definitely the Aimpoint.  For me, the lighter weight of the H-1 also worked better.  Aimpoint is expensive, but you get what you pay for.  With all the money already being spent for Bullseye gear, a few hundred more for a better sight sounded reasonable.   IMHO.

I got the H-1; if I get another, it might be the H-2:
https://www.aimpoint.com/product/aimpoint-micro-h-2/
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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by Gary Wells on 6/8/2018, 9:17 am

GaryWWhite wrote:Hi Wobbley,

These are the bullets I am ordering quoted from Missouri Bullets web page:
".45 Button - Hi-Tek .452 Diameter .45 ACP 185 Grain SWC Flat-Base Brinell 12. A Classic, very accurate! For Bullseye Velocity Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating".  We shall see about its accuracy, my friend!!
Gary:
Any chance you are planning on using B/E powder with those bullets and what distance are you planning on shooting at? I've shot the H&G#130 185 gr LSWC "button bullet" for many years but generally use Dardas LSWC. Not too many casting companies cast that bullet profile any more. Years back when I shoot "pretty well" at indoor ranges it seemed to be a very accurate bullet.

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by GaryWWhite on 6/11/2018, 12:28 pm

Gary Wells wrote:
GaryWWhite wrote:Hi Wobbley,

These are the bullets I am ordering quoted from Missouri Bullets web page:
".45 Button - Hi-Tek .452 Diameter .45 ACP 185 Grain SWC Flat-Base Brinell 12. A Classic, very accurate! For Bullseye Velocity Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating".  We shall see about its accuracy, my friend!!
Gary:
Any chance you are planning on using B/E powder with those bullets and what distance are you planning on shooting at? I've shot the H&G#130 185 gr LSWC "button bullet" for many years but generally use Dardas LSWC. Not too many casting companies cast that bullet profile any more. Years back when I shoot "pretty well" at indoor ranges it seemed to be a very accurate bullet.

Hey Gary,
The load data I received was to use 4.0gr of BE for the Button bullet.  A High Master has advised using WST instead of BE so I'm in a quandary as to which powder to use.

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by Wobbley on 6/11/2018, 1:02 pm

Either will doo the job. WST is cleaner than Bullseye. The group shot in my avatar was shot with 3.8 grains Bullseye.
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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by Gary Wells on 6/11/2018, 8:10 pm

Many thanks for the info, Gary.

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by GaryWWhite on 6/13/2018, 11:59 am

Hi Folks,

Thanks for the link to Roze Distributors.  I bought some 185gr SWC reloads for my first outing at a 2700 match.  I will see how these feed in my SA TRP that WC just did a reliability package on.  I bought 200 rounds as that was what I was told I would need for this 2700 match. They ought to just grind off the SA TRP from the slide due to the parts and work WC has done to the pistol.  Oh well!  If it shoots well it will be money worth spent.  I have been doing some dry firing daily and hope this helps.  I have the majority of my reloading equipment now sans a press, brass, bullets, primers and powders.  The guys on the forum have been great passing off load info.  I know what I'm going to buy and from whom.
Gary

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by gregbenner on 6/13/2018, 1:43 pm

Gary, I am your age (plus a couple) with that wonderful addition to aging called arthritis.  I don't like recoil, so I load 3.5 gr of bullseye with 185 and 200 grain lead SWC.  I find them to be quite accurate.  Not at all suggesting it's any better than what you are going to try, rather, don't be afraid to experiment a bit.

I have found Bullseye powder can be pretty "smokey", I plan to try something different when I run out of Bullseye.  Probably WST since I have some. YMMV

Also, I found the UD Match Dot to be pretty heavy, so switched to a reflex type dot sight, maybe 1/3 the weight. Again, just a thought.

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by GaryWWhite on 6/13/2018, 3:11 pm

Hey Greg,

I haven't done any reloading yet because some of my stuff (press) is on backorder.  My very first match is on the 24th and I went ahead and bought some ammo today in 185gr that I think is set up for Bullseye.  I didn't want to shoot the 230gr ball ammo I have laying around as it would kill my hand.  I'm with you about the WST as that has been recommended by a number of Grand Masters as being one of the most accurate powders. I think the UD Match Dot would be too heavy also and will probably get a RDS to mount where my rear sight and would not interfere with the cycling of the action.

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by Gary Wells on 6/14/2018, 8:34 pm

Greg:
Many thanks for the info, Sir. I was shooting 3.4-3.5 B/E behind a 185 gr H&G#130 before Alliant bought out B/E. They claimed that they did not reformulate anything but when I ran out of the original B/E I had to go to 3.6-3,7 to duplicate the earlier load. That was in the days that I could shoot OK at short distances in indoor ranges. Now I can barely hit anything at all. I do appreciate the info though.

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by rich.tullo on 6/16/2018, 7:52 pm

Wobbley wrote:If you’re going to Missouri Bullets, take a good look at the “Button” 185 gr bullet.  This is a near duplicate of the 185 JSWC used in Factory match ammo for many years.  Some say it is more accurate than the lightweight H&G 68.  
Wrong do not go with a Missouri BNSWC don't print. 

For low cost cast, so far Summers Enterprises 200 gn SWC HG 68 clone is very good for the cost. Quality control wise Summers bullets are nearly as good as a swaged bullet. A wile back I did a test and standard deviation was under 5 gn on a 200 gn bullet which compares to near 0 for the ZERO JHP and about 3gn for a ZERO swaged 200 gn. I attribute the delta of 3gn to the variance in the lube on the bullet but for a typical cast bullet I do not think you can get better than under 5gn. 

Summers has 185 cheap but I need to use a Lee Factory Crimp to get a good reliable bullet so I use the 200s which at par with Penn or CJN if not better. I like to use a Redding taper Crimp die. 

The best cast bullet by far is Terry's , Magnus Bullets. They are match quality and the variance is low like the zero. The MO BN is a Saeco 130 which is not a clone of the Federal BN and you can expect the variance on those to be 7gn to 10gn. MO makes a decent HG 68 but Donny is cheap and better for a practice or short line bullet. I use JHPs for the long line because they shoot well out of my guns and hold the same zero as 200gn HG 68s. 

HPSWCs also shoot well and if you order in really big bulk 5000-10000 the price approaches Summers. 

Terry's 801 is a clone he has made special and the bullet prints at 50 yards. I think that bullet with the right powder and right OAL and Taper can print as good if not better than the Nosler out of a Kart Barrel. 


RT
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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by rich.tullo on 6/16/2018, 8:06 pm

Gary Wells wrote:Greg:
Many thanks for the info, Sir. I was shooting 3.4-3.5 B/E behind a 185 gr H&G#130 before Alliant bought out B/E. They claimed that they did not reformulate anything but when I ran out of the original B/E I had to go to 3.6-3,7 to duplicate the earlier load. That was in the days that I could shoot OK at short distances in indoor ranges. Now I can barely hit anything at all. I do appreciate the info though.
They definitely changed something in the 80s my Dad's go to load was 3.5 under a now extinct Taurus 200gn Swaged BN SWC (if you find them buy as many as possible, they come in a green box marked Paterson NJ). Its like Terry's bullet with the same shape but better and they feed excellent.
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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by GaryWWhite on 6/21/2018, 9:09 pm

Hi Guys,

I want to thank everyone for their kind input into my newly acquired interest in Bullseye (Precision Shooting).  I have been mentored by a kindly High Master and National Champion who is now retired and am taking his advice when I jump off to shoot my first 2700.  My first match will probably be next month as I won't have my press until after the June match (the press is on back order).  I had said in an earlier post that I had ordered 200 rounds of ammo but I canceled that order and am going to wait and shoot my own load. I'm going to be loading up some cast and coated Button 185 SWC that I have had good reports on.  Going to use WST and once fired brass with Winchester primers as recommended.  Since my mentor gave me the actual load info by PM, I don't feel comfortable giving out all the specifics on the loads.  I will be shooting my Mod. 41 Smith topped with an Ultradot Matchdot II with CCI SV and my accurized SA TRP with a Vortex Venom red dot.  I hope to actually get a semi decent Marksman score on my first outing although I intend to compete, I'm not going crazy and will try my best but will still know that I'm doing this for the sport and fun of it.  I understand I will have two shoot probably two 2700 matches before I am classified officially. Again, I want to thank all of you for your help, comments and recommendations.
Best Regards,
Gary

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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

Post by rich.tullo on 6/22/2018, 6:11 am

Focus on process not score.
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Re: Ultradot Matchdot 2

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