Recommendation for Bullet

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Recommendation for Bullet

Post by GaryWWhite on 6/10/2018, 8:00 pm

I've ordered my reloading equipment and now am trying to figure out what bullet to order.  I have read that a lot of folks are using cast bullets in the 185 to 200gr range and these are SWC with some favoring HP.  I am really confused.  I also noted some use swaged (sp?) bullets.  What is this process and how does it affect accuracy?  

Just to let you know what I'm thinking about is using Bullseye powder, Winchester primers and mixed brass (cause I'm cheap).  If I knew I could pick up all my brass after shooting I would probably buy new brass (but don't know this yet) as I haven't shot at this range before. I see a lot of folks use Starline which is a Company located close to me (I have to pay tax).

My gun is a Springfield Armory TRP which has been "Wilsonized" so to speak for accuracy.  I have no idea how it will shoot out to 50 yards.  I'm hoping I can see that far!lol! Anyhoo, I know it shoots a ragged hole at 25 yards and hoping it can maintain good accuracy out to that 50 yard line.  I will be shooting "irons" for my first go at this sport, hoping to get a good RDS to help my old eyes in the very near future.

I am not going into Bullseye at my age of 68 looking to set the world afire.  I'm going to try my best and hopefully get quite a bit of enjoyment out of this discipline. I like tinkering and think reloading and developing my shooting skills will be an enjoyable pastime.  

Thanks! Gary

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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by Jon Eulette on 6/10/2018, 9:22 pm

Gary, the 200 gr lswc is a safe bullet for 99% of the pistols out there to shoot decent 50 yd groups. Saying that 185 works great in many pistols. I don’t Ransom much any more but with mixed brass and 200’s always got sub 2” 50 yd groups from my pistols. I like the hole the 200 cuts so that’s why I use them. I don’t slave over reloads either. Use lots of mixed brass and let’em fly. I load 0.920 from bottom of case to shoulder of bullet with at least 0.467” crimp. For a big match I use once fired brass for the long line. I know better ammo can be made but I’m pleased doing it this way. I use 3.4-3.5 BE for short line and 3.7-3.8 BE longline with 200. 
Jon
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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by Blsi2600 on 6/10/2018, 9:37 pm

In your back yard.  Missouri Bullet Co.

.45 Button 185gr 12 Brinnell
.45 Bullseye #1 200gr 12 Brinnell

Either will do the job.  Your choice.

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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by GaryWWhite on 6/10/2018, 9:53 pm

Thanks guys for the great information!  Since you are both Masters I will definitely take your advice seriously and try out these loads. BTW, I am 18 miles from Missouri Bullet Co.  Am thinking about taking a trip on my motorcycle to visit their operation.  They have provided some bullet and loading information recently.  I'm really trying to reach out for help and again want to thank you for your help!
Gary

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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by DavidR on 6/11/2018, 10:46 am

Magnus bullets sells all you noted, and with the right load all will do you well, ive tested hundreds of load combos with bullseye here is the X ring recipe with the 200, 185 cast and 185 swaged from magnus but will do the same with any hg 68 style 200 or 185....  4-4.2 gr bullseye, WLP, any good brass, OAL of thumbnail thickness lead above rim edge and a .468-.469  taper crimp. Load this and go shooting, only reason you cant shoot a 2700 with this is either you or the accuracy of your gun.
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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by GaryWWhite on 6/11/2018, 9:11 pm

DavidR wrote:Magnus bullets sells all you noted, and with the right load all will do you well, ive tested hundreds of load combos with bullseye here is the X ring recipe with the 200, 185 cast and 185 swaged from magnus but will do the same with any hg 68 style 200 or 185....  4-4.2 gr bullseye, WLP, any good brass, OAL of thumbnail thickness lead above rim edge and a .468-.469  taper crimp. Load this and go shooting, only reason you cant shoot a 2700 with this is either you or the accuracy of your gun.

Hey David,
Thanks for the information!  I will check the Magnus website and look around.  I think I have found a bullet you have recommended from a local distributor called a button bullet which is a LSWC that is coated.  I'm still ignorant about swaging even though I have Googled it I still don't understand what it does?  Please explain the "OAL of thumbnail thickness lead above rim edge".  I under overall length but am not versed in reloading enough to figure out what you are saying.  Your kind explanation to this ignorant individual would be appreciated!! I appreciate the info on the taper crimp.  My Lyman die set has a separate crimp die where I can be pretty exact on.  David, thanks again and I apologize for not being up to snuff about all the reloading ins and outs yet.  I'm pretty sure my gun could shoot a 2700 but I know I'll never get close but will have fun learning and trying.
Thanks!
Gary

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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on 6/11/2018, 10:20 pm

GaryWWhite wrote:
DavidR wrote:Magnus bullets sells all you noted, and with the right load all will do you well, ive tested hundreds of load combos with bullseye here is the X ring recipe with the 200, 185 cast and 185 swaged from magnus but will do the same with any hg 68 style 200 or 185.

 I will check the Magnus website and look around.  I think I have found a bullet you have recommended from a local distributor called a button bullet which is a LSWC that is coated.  

Gary, I think you’ll see that there’s a consistent hint that the H&G 68 style 200gr LSWC is the easiest path to the X/ten ring and reliable in most 1911s.  I don’t believe coated bullets will be ideal for 50 yds, and something we talked about previously.   Magnus/Zero have very little deviation in weight, and I’ve been impressed, granted it doesn't take much.  I randomly sampled 10 bullets from 500 rnd Magnus/Zero boxes ordered at different times, and the maximum deviation was +/- 0.3 grains.



.025 seems to work well for the band of exposed lead for me to approximate a "thumbnail" use a chamber gauge and your actual chamber to verify!
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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by GerhardG on 8/1/2018, 8:29 pm

Greetings, 
 This thread has me wondering about my 2000 rounds of Lasercast 200 gr. LSWC for my 
45. Any comments as I start to weigh mine. What kind of deviation has been noticed in regards to bullet placement?
Thank you in advance
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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by GerhardG on 8/1/2018, 8:31 pm

What is the stated accuracy of your scale? Brand etc...
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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by Chris Miceli on 8/1/2018, 8:56 pm

Don’t bother weighing them lasercast makes nice bullets that are consistent enought . Jacketed and swaged are more consistent. The bullet base is the sensitive part. Get a gempro 250 or similar. I have a satorius gd503 analytical scale and I don’t bother sorting by weight with quality projectiles
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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by SMBeyer on 8/1/2018, 9:28 pm

GaryWWhite wrote:Hey David,
Thanks for the information!  I will check the Magnus website and look around.  I think I have found a bullet you have recommended from a local distributor called a button bullet which is a LSWC that is coated.  I'm still ignorant about swaging even though I have Googled it I still don't understand what it does?  Please explain the "OAL of thumbnail thickness lead above rim edge".  I under overall length but am not versed in reloading enough to figure out what you are saying.  Your kind explanation to this ignorant individual would be appreciated!! I appreciate the info on the taper crimp.  My Lyman die set has a separate crimp die where I can be pretty exact on.  David, thanks again and I apologize for not being up to snuff about all the reloading ins and outs yet.  I'm pretty sure my gun could shoot a 2700 but I know I'll never get close but will have fun learning and trying.
Thanks!
Gary

Gary
Don't get too caught up in perfect ammo trap.  A huge variety of combinations will do you just fine for quite some time.  You start shooting 99's and 100's short line but are shooting 70's long line then yeah I'd re-evaluate my loads.  Until then pick a load and get some rounds down range.  Most but not all 200gr commercial cast bullets are made from the same Magma molds.  I believe Magnus has their own proprietary mold but very similar.  Personally I'd stay away from coated bullets and shoot traditionally lubed cast lead.  I'm not sold on coated but I'm kinda hard headed.  My cast and lubed shoot great so why do I want to change.  

Swaged bullets shoot well too just a different way of making bullets.  Instead of pouring melted lead into a mold small pieces of near pure lead are cut from a long lead wire called slugs i think.  These slugs are not bullet shaped.  They are then pressed into a bullet shape by a die under a lot of pressure.  This pressing should eliminate any voids and give a more consistent balanced bullet.  I got a little bit of leading in the barrel from swaged bullets but I don't get any from cast and I get as good or better accuracy from cast.

If you can get an overall length for you specific bullet you are using you can use that.  What David R was saying is you want about 1/32" of lead from the shoulder of the SWC sticking out of the case mouth.  John Eulet was giving you the length from the SHOULDER of the SWC (not the nose) to the case head.

There are those that will tell you you must shoot jacketed hollow point bullets.  Anything less is uncivilized.  Unless you are going to shoot CMP events where a jacketed bullet is required save your money and stick with cast or swaged.

I shoot a tighter taper crimp of .463.  In my gun and testing tighter was better than looser (.469).  I would pick something in there and go with it.  That visible miss your gonna undoubtedly shoot just starting out with iron sights is not gonna be the result of the wrong crimp.  Or bullet weight.  Or brand.  Or swaged instead of cast instead of jacketed.  Or primer brand. Or....

Hoped this helped

Scott
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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by GaryWWhite on 8/7/2018, 5:58 pm

Hi Scott,
I just got back from the range shooting my first ever hand loads for a pistol.  I shot 40 rounds.  30 rounds were 185gr LSWC coated with 3.8gr of WST. The other 10 rounds were 200gr LSWC with 4.2gr of WST.  Man, this stuff really is smoky!! I shot off a rest at a 25-yard indoor range and managed maybe a 1 to 1.5" group.  I can't believe how difficult it will be to shoot one handed during my first Bullseye match later this month.  I will be lucky enough if I hit the backstop!! Anyways, I was quite pleased with the hand loads as all but one fired. Examination of the failed round showed a good primer strike? Guess it was a bad primer?  My gun worked flawlessly with these hand loads so I was also pleased about that. I thought I was a pretty decent shot but found out that I am miserable.  I know my gun will shoot better than this as Wilson Combat did a reliability job on it, put a match grade barrel and bushing on it.  The gun has no lateral or vertical play.  It has a trigger job with a 3# (I know I have to change it to 3.5#) pull.  I am 68 y/o and was watching a youtube video with Clint Smith expounding on people who stated they were great shots 30 years ago but did not keep up with the shooting sports and have lost it.  I think this is what happened to me.  When I was Sheriff's Officer in my early 30's, I shot expert with a revolver.  As Clint Smith said this is a skill you can lose if you don't use it.  Boy, was he ever right!!  I guess I will have to go out and shoot the best I can and try to have some fun.  Maybe someday I might make it legitimately to Marksman.  That's my first goal.  lol!

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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by Chris Miceli on 8/7/2018, 6:32 pm

GaryWWhite wrote:Hi Scott,
I just got back from the range shooting my first ever hand loads for a pistol.  I shot 40 rounds.  30 rounds were 185gr LSWC coated with 3.8gr of WST. The other 10 rounds were 200gr LSWC with 4.2gr of WST.  Man, this stuff really is smoky!! I shot off a rest at a 25-yard indoor range and managed maybe a 1 to 1.5" group.  I can't believe how difficult it will be to shoot one handed during my first Bullseye match later this month.  I will be lucky enough if I hit the backstop!! Anyways, I was quite pleased with the hand loads as all but one fired. Examination of the failed round showed a good primer strike? Guess it was a bad primer?  My gun worked flawlessly with these hand loads so I was also pleased about that. I thought I was a pretty decent shot but found out that I am miserable.  I know my gun will shoot better than this as Wilson Combat did a reliability job on it, put a match grade barrel and bushing on it.  The gun has no lateral or vertical play.  It has a trigger job with a 3# (I know I have to change it to 3.5#) pull.  I am 68 y/o and was watching a youtube video with Clint Smith expounding on people who stated they were great shots 30 years ago but did not keep up with the shooting sports and have lost it.  I think this is what happened to me.  When I was Sheriff's Officer in my early 30's, I shot expert with a revolver.  As Clint Smith said this is a skill you can lose if you don't use it.  Boy, was he ever right!!  I guess I will have to go out and shoot the best I can and try to have some fun.  Maybe someday I might make it legitimately to Marksman.  That's my first goal.  lol!

could be a primer wasn't seated all the way.
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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on 8/7/2018, 8:00 pm

GaryWWhite wrote:Hi Scott,
I am 68 y/o and was watching a youtube video with Clint Smith expounding on people who stated they were great shots 30 years ago but did not keep up with the shooting sports and have lost it.  I think this is what happened to me.  When I was Sheriff's Officer in my early 30's, I shot expert with a revolver.  As Clint Smith said this is a skill you can lose if you don't use it.  Boy, was he ever right!!  I guess I will have to go out and shoot the best I can and try to have some fun. 

That's all that matters!  Get back at it, you'll crush it and make some great friends!  You don't have to be Brian Zins overnight.  Sounds like you're on the path!
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Re: Recommendation for Bullet

Post by TexasShooter on 8/7/2018, 8:29 pm

GaryWWhite wrote:  I guess I will have to go out and shoot the best I can and try to have some fun.  

Haven't shot a match yet and you've already mastered the most important thing...do your best and enjoy it  Smile . I figure you go to the first match to figure out where the bathrooms are and getting to shoot is a nice bonus. Goals are great but don't forget to enjoy the getting there...

Good luck!

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