S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

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S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by gregbenner on 6/24/2018, 12:10 pm

As many who shoot the S&W 32 long for Bullseye already know, accuracy with this cartridge can be a real challenge at 50 yards.  Commercially available cartridges generally have fair results at best, X ring consistency seems to require reloading. However, one of the most important pieces to successfully reloading is the bullet. and for me, the only accurate commercially available bullet is the H&N 98 grain HBWC, in .314 size  ( most of the European 32 L barrels measure somewhere in the .314 range).  However, H&N bullets are generally unavailable in the US.

Dave Wilson is the acknowledged expert in 32 reloading/testing, etc, and uses a barrel fixture for testing. Last year I asked him if he would test my Benelli MP90, which I could not get to shoot accurately.  Dave sent me back several test targets, some (using my reloads which I had sent him) didn't keep all shots on the repair center.  Others, using H&N and some of what Dave called "bumped Plinkers) were in the X ring consistently.  Dave explained that he had a swaging tool that would "bump up" the Speer Plinker 98 grain bullet to one that resembled the H&N. Note that the Speer Plinker is advertised as .314, but in reality is ,3125-.313. 

Dave loaned me his tool and I bumped up a few thousand Plinkers last summer, and have been using them up fast, realizing I needed my own swaging tool.  Dave doesn't male swaging dies for resale, but gave me the name of someone he had heard of, Larry Blackman, who sells both a simple swaging tool and makes dies. I sent Larry a couple of the unmodified Speer Plincker and some original H&N bullets and requested he make me dies to bump up the Plinker to a copy of the H&N.  The cost was approximately $425, $180 for the tool, and $225 for the dies. 

The Speer Plinkers cost approximately 7c each, I purchased my last bunch (10k) from Dillon. The swaging process is easy, and works well.  I have tested and compared both the bullets I swaged with Dave tool, the ones I bumped, and .314 H&Ns,  in both a Pardini and a GSP using a ransom rest. I get similar results with all three bullets.  

I also sent a few of these bullets to a few friends shoot 32long, including Dave Wilson, to test.  I specifically hoped Dave would test them since he uses a barrel fixture, and  is way more experienced and consistent than I am in both reloading and testing,  A few days ago, Dave sent me three 20 shot targets, comparing the three bullets, with all in the X ring:cheers:cheers.  

I'm not sure I have the ability to save and then repost these targets, hopefully Dave might. 

The source of the my swaging tool and dies was Larry Blackman, Bullet Swaging Supply ( with the normal disclaimers, I have no financial interest bla bla bla).

gregbenner

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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by fc60 on 6/24/2018, 2:31 pm

Greetings,

I believe the Swage Press maker is Larry Blackmon (with an "o").

The test targets mentioned above are below.

Factory Pardini HP barrel.
50 yards target distance.
Fired via a mechanical rest.

Cheers,

Dave

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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by PhotoEscape on 6/24/2018, 2:50 pm

Hello Dave,  What does ".315 Exp" mean on your targets?  Thanks, AP
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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by gregbenner on 6/24/2018, 3:00 pm

Thanks Dave. Blackmon it is.

http://www.bulletswagingsupply.com/main%20price%20sheet.pdf

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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by Jon Eulette on 6/24/2018, 3:22 pm

PhotoEscape wrote:Hello Dave,  What does ".315 Exp" mean on your targets?  Thanks, AP
Most likely expander diameter.
Jon
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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by bruce martindale on 6/24/2018, 4:36 pm

What was the load; those are humming. Factory 32 wc is in the 600s...will verify that data.

Also what does this tool, and die look like?

My load is 1.9 231 with 90 gr SWC Hornady seated flush. Courtesy of Fred Monetti. Those are mid 700s


Thanks

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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by gregbenner on 6/24/2018, 5:05 pm

Picture on his website

http://www.bulletswagingsupply.com/bssp1.pdf

I believe Dave was using 1.7 gr Bullseye, which is what I used to use.  I have switched to N310, 1.4 for target and the short line, 1.7 LL.

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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by PhotoEscape on 6/24/2018, 5:14 pm

I concur with Greg.  If I read Dave's labels on targets correctly, it is 1.7 grains of BullsEye, presumably from lot # 669.170.  I hope, Dave can confirm that, as well as assumption, that .315 is expander size.  I'm interested in this, because I'm the one who makes funnels with expanders for Dillon presses (I call them PTU).  Greg is one of the testers for 32ACP PTUs - please see another tread on this subject on this forum.  According to him, .3165" expander is quite tight for loading .314 lead. 
AP
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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by gregbenner on 6/24/2018, 5:22 pm

AP, the .3165 expander is tight for the T&B lead 32ACP bullets, but works perfectly with these bumped bullets. Not exactly sure why, but partially due to the smaller size of the ACP bullet (?).

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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by fc60 on 6/24/2018, 7:42 pm

Greetings,

Translation of my "secret" coding.

BT-BK32 = Barrel Tester using barrel BK32 (Factory Pardini HP) (BK is the guy that gifted it to me)

Speer.314 = My home bumped Speer Plinkers with the H&N profile

Benner.3145 = Sample bullets provided from Mr. Benner

H&N.314 = Genuine H&N 0.314" 100 grain HBWC

Lapua.334 = Lapua cases sized to 0.334"

.315 EXP = 0.315" expander plug (Normally, I try to avoid using an expander)

WSP = Winchester Small Pistol primer

1.70-BE669.170 = 1.70 grains of Bullseye, Lot #669, using a powder bushing of 0.170 cc.


Regarding velocity, factory commercial varies from 590 FPS to 775 FPS. I try to stay below 730 FPS, if possible.

My recent testing with TiteWAD produces 680 FPS.

Target below was fired at the same time as the three above targets.

Cheers,

Dave

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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by gregbenner on 6/24/2018, 7:55 pm

Dave, with all of your testing with S&W long, have you found any particular brand of powder to be more accurate?  Overall?

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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by fc60 on 6/25/2018, 10:46 am

Greetings,

With powder selection, I look for brands that meter consistently. i.e. Bullseye, N310, TiteWAD, 231, etc.

Large flake powders do not meter well in the 1.30-1.70 grain range.

The faster burning powders seem to offer the best results velocity and chronograph-wise.

Next, I look for a powder that produces the smallest Standard Deviation.

I test each powder in the barrel tester looking for the smallest most repeatable group.

Also, I try to produce a velocity in the range suitable for the pistol I will be using. Normally, this will be 670-730 FPS.

There are hundreds of variables. Testing is the only solution.

Cheers,

Dave
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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by JKR on 6/26/2018, 5:54 pm

Greg,

Congratulations on your success with the bullet swage! Dave's barrel tester sure tells the true story.

I've not got around to shooting the samples you sent. I'm getting prepped for Perry right now and have decided not to take the 32 this year, so have been training hard with my 45. I'll get around to shooting those Speers when I get back form the Nationals. I'll probably save 30 of them to shoot the slow fire in a local match. I had a 96 slow fire in the last match I shot it in with H&N bullets. Good score for me but the other two SF were probably high 80's. Anyway these little guns will shoot if you fuss with the loading!

Jim

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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by gregbenner on 6/26/2018, 6:23 pm

Nice to hear from you Jim....good luck at Perry!!  The thanks is for Dave, wouldn't have even considered the idea if he hadn't done it first. It is interesting how critical the bullet is for these guns as compared to the 45 for example.

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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by fc60 on 6/28/2018, 5:07 pm

Greetings,

I have drawings for the nose and base punch to duplicate the H&N profile.

Unable to upload a PDF file, so contact me with your "real" email address and I will send you a copy.

When ordering, or machining your own, have the base punch enclosed in the die body for protection.

Cheers,

Dave
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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by bruce martindale on 8/23/2018, 7:44 pm

Poor mans versions using a Lee sizer and two mandrels in a vise. Snug it up until it stops yielding, no need to squeeze it to death. Rap base plug to eject bullet and nose plug. Slide bullet base on a steel surface to clean it up a tad. I have one extra Lee 314 die, will have a plug set shortly. 50 yard target hand held is better than l got with other reloads.





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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by fc60 on 8/24/2018, 11:53 am

Greetings Bruce,

What pistol did you use?

How about brass and powder?

Cheers,

Dave
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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by bruce martindale on 8/24/2018, 6:38 pm

A Walther with a 314 barrel. Remington brass, 1.9 231.

On this first run, l didn't resize the brass. The H&N are 314 as well and l didn't get the best results with those either hence l removed any possible inside diameter issues.  I am getting a tad larger than 314 here since there is some taper to the Lee die and I am not pushing all the way through. They exceeded my expectations on the limited trial. Npw to test some more. The Speer "314" were as low as .312. Sorry about the extra pics, not sure what happened there.
Thanks

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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

Post by fc60 on 8/25/2018, 11:58 am

Greetings,

The Speer bullets are harder than most other brands.

My swage dies are honed to 0.314" +/-0.0001".

The "bumped" Speer Plinkers come out of the die at 0.3143". There is some spring back to the metal.

Yes, the Lee dies are tapered but if you bought one, say 0.311", have a machinist hone the die to 0.314" cylindrical.

I suspect the Lee dies are carbo-nitrided so try to remove as little material as possible.

With the bumped bullets, I find that either R-P or Lapua brass sized to an outside diameter of 0.334" produces a nice fit with the bullet. I do not use an expander plug. I only flare the case mouth.

Powders that have worked well for me are...

1.70 grains of VV N320 (three-twenty)
1.40 grains of VV N310 (three-ten)
1.70 grains of Alliant Bullseye
1.65 grains of Winchester WST
1.27 grains of Hodgdon TiteWAD ( NOT TiteGROUP)
1.70 grains of IMR PB

Use any small pistol primer EXCEPT Winchester Magnum. (WSPM). These increase the velocity.

All are within 680-730 FPS

Important!!! Keep the barrel throat clean. Any Lead fouling ruins the grouping.

Cheers,

Dave
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Re: S&W 32Long Copying the H&N .314 HBWC for Reloading

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