Bullseye-L Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Center hold and six oclock hold

+9
Al
willnewton
mhayford45
RJP
joem5636
SteveT
james r chapman
CR10X
Sheriff1962
13 posters

Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by Sheriff1962 7/31/2018, 3:43 pm

For both ( 25 and 50 yards ) , what are pluses and minuses of center hold and six oclock hold ?  Gun used  is 1911 in 45acp, Iron sights ,  firing 185swc match ammo.  Thank You.

Sheriff1962

Posts : 176
Join date : 2018-07-04

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by CR10X 7/31/2018, 3:47 pm

No difference, IF you can clearly and completely see the front sight with the center hold (vertical and horizontal centered in the rear notch).  

For some people, the front sight "grays" out when using center hold and the perfect alignment is harder to see.  (I fall into that group so I use sub-6).   That's the only real difference.  

If your wobble is bigger than the black, the you probably want to use sub-6 hold to keep from "picking off" the shot. 

CR

CR10X

Posts : 1777
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by james r chapman 7/31/2018, 5:31 pm

I took the sub-6 advice awhile ago for 50 yds. 
it greatly improved my long line scores.
bull on the post works fine for my 25's.
Just remember to come down 6-8 clicks....
james r chapman
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 6329
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by SteveT 7/31/2018, 6:17 pm

Center Hold
Advantages
  • Feels natural to most people

Disadvantages
  • Can't see the sight picture as clearly except under good lighting conditions (will vary between shooters)
  • Can encourage the shooter focus at least partially on the target


6 O'Clock Hold
Advantages
  • If you have a very steady hold and if you have the mental fortitude to ignore the target it might be a bit more accurate

Disadvantages
  • You can't hold the gun still so the background behind the sight picture is constantly changing between black and white
  • It encourages focusing on the target, rather than on the sights
  • It can encourage interrupted trigger movement as the sight picture moves around


Sub 6 O'Clock
Advantages
  • You can very clearly see the entire front sight against the white background
  • Less distraction from the target moving behind the sights, especially with a deep sub 6

Disadvantages
  • Shooters don't trust it
  • You may have to move your sight down at 50 and back up at 25. OK that's not really a disadvantage, but it is weird.
SteveT
SteveT

Posts : 1095
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Illinois

https://sites.google.com/site/sdturner/shooting

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by joem5636 8/2/2018, 6:05 am

For older eyes, center hold is best!

joem5636

Posts : 96
Join date : 2011-06-11

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by RJP 8/8/2018, 3:56 am

In my younger days when I shot iron sights, sub 6 has one advantage that many people are not aware of.

For 45 acp bullets, if you sight in at 85 yards (center of mass hold) the trajectory of target ammo is such that with a sub six hold, you do not require any change in the sight adjustment from the long line to the short line. The bullet first crosses the line of sight at about 7 yards and is about 4 inches over line of sight at 25 yards and it is still rising another inch or so at 50 yards. The bullet meets the line of sight again at 85 yards.

This works for a sub six hold because the long line hold under the target center is longer than the short line hold under the target center because the size of the bulls are different for each distance.

RJP

Posts : 24
Join date : 2011-06-10

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by mhayford45 8/9/2018, 4:55 pm

Sub 6 requires less mental effort and alignment in aiming. One only has to center the front sight, focus on the front sight, trust your subconscious and exercise good trigger control and reap 10s.  Much easier...

mhayford45

Posts : 255
Join date : 2013-02-21
Location : MI

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by willnewton 8/9/2018, 5:51 pm

Nice comments guys. Even if a topic has come up before, there is always a new light shed on the subject from a different direction.

I like the ideas about trust (or not being able to) in yourself and sub-6 holds.  Blank target drills sound like a good way to match the lesson with the practice.

I usually shoot 6:00 with irons, but after our match tonight, I tried some center hold and was pleasantly surprised to find that there was a lot less analysis going on in my head of the sight picture, and much larger jump in trust that my hold and trigger would get me where I wanted.  Result was a nice round group.

I was wondering if center hold, when executed properly, is the a bit like the opposite of a blank target drill- a "dark target drill" or something like that.
willnewton
willnewton
Admin

Posts : 1103
Join date : 2016-07-24
Location : NC

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by Al 8/10/2018, 9:10 am

When I was still chasing points I was shooting a lot of air pistol. I kept logs of scores shot with center, 6, and sub 6. Winner was center by a few points over the sub 6. The 6-o-clock hold came in a distant 3rd. Forward 15 yrs and my eye's have deteriorated to a point where it's hard to discern the sights with the center hold in any light conditions other than outside in the sunlight and have gone to the sub 6.

I'd recommend you do the same. Try all 3, in various light conditions, and keep track of your scores. Your scores will tell you which to use.

Legged out in 03 & promptly quit shooting air.  What a dummy! Lately I think I should seriously chase 22 and revolver points. Time to start back on the AP.

Al

Posts : 647
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 69
Location : Bismarck, ND

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by oldsalt444 8/14/2018, 5:14 pm

CR10X wrote:No difference, IF you can clearly and completely see the front sight with the center hold (vertical and horizontal centered in the rear notch).  

For some people, the front sight "grays" out when using center hold and the perfect alignment is harder to see.  (I fall into that group so I use sub-6).   That's the only real difference.  

If your wobble is bigger than the black, the you probably want to use sub-6 hold to keep from "picking off" the shot. 

CR
Most of the AMU guys use a center hold nowadays.  But us older guys would have a tough time seeing proper sight alignment against a black target bull.  Soooo.... why not paint the sights a contrasting color, not white, but say red, orange or even fuschia?  It would look ugly as hell, but it might work.  Anyone ever tried that?
oldsalt444
oldsalt444

Posts : 288
Join date : 2011-10-26
Location : Commiefornia

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by james r chapman 8/14/2018, 5:25 pm

Perry's sun just washes the painted sights out.
james r chapman
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 6329
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by mikemyers 8/15/2018, 2:15 pm

There is another disadvantage to 6 o'clock type holds that probably don't bother anyone seriously into Bullseye.

When people first suggested I switch from center hold, the reason I didn't feel comfortable is that back then, I used to shoot at all sorts of different targets, different sizes, and sometimes just a small cross, or one of those metal things that falls over when hit.  That means there is no "point of aim", unless you sight in the gun again.
mikemyers
mikemyers

Posts : 4236
Join date : 2016-07-26
Age : 80
Location : South Florida, and India

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by LenV 8/15/2018, 2:48 pm

I try for center hold. I find the sights at 6, sub 6, 9, 8, 11... What a Face
LenV
LenV

Posts : 4739
Join date : 2014-01-24
Age : 74
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by Sheriff1962 8/26/2018, 8:19 am

I experimented with center hold last few days . All range sessions were ourdoors.

Here is what I learned :

At 50 yards using 50 yards center (X/10/9/Cool my scores inproved somewhat. Plus it was just easier to shoot that way.
At 25 yards usind 25 yards center (X/10/9) I am better off with six o'clock.

Trying to make some sense out of this. LOL

Sheriff1962

Posts : 176
Join date : 2018-07-04

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by SteveT 8/26/2018, 2:13 pm

In my experience it takes 20-30 sessions to know if a new technique works better or worse. The first 5-10 don't really count because of "new gun syndrome". The next 5-10 are getting used to it and settling in and then it becomes normal and I can see how it is working.
SteveT
SteveT

Posts : 1095
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Illinois

https://sites.google.com/site/sdturner/shooting

Grunt likes this post

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by Chris Miceli 8/26/2018, 2:22 pm

Use both Smile  Some guy named Zins does

Chris Miceli

Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by oldsalt444 8/26/2018, 3:16 pm

Sheriff1962 wrote:I experimented with center hold last few days . All range sessions were ourdoors.

Here is what I learned :

At 50 yards using 50 yards center (X/10/9/Cool my scores inproved somewhat. Plus it was just easier to shoot that way.
At 25 yards usind 25 yards center (X/10/9) I am better off with six o'clock.

Trying to make some sense out of this. LOL
Actually, this makes sense at least for sight adjustment.  You won't need to make any.  I know a few shooters using this technique.
oldsalt444
oldsalt444

Posts : 288
Join date : 2011-10-26
Location : Commiefornia

Back to top Go down

Center hold and six oclock hold  Empty Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum