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Coaching tip

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tceva
Oleg G
Jack H
Aprilian
Jwhelan939
Tim:H11
CR10X
mikemyers
Ed Hall
sbtzc
TomH_pa
bruce martindale
Mike38
SteveT
dronning
mspingeld
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Post by mspingeld 8/3/2018, 9:53 am

First topic message reminder :

A friend recommended a book, The Inner Game of Tennis. I’m getting a lot out of it.
 
Here’s one lesson: Be nice to yourself!
 
Have you ever said to yourself “I can’t shoot rapid fire” or “Why can’t I keep them in the black?” or, even worse “I suck at” this or that? I know I have.
 
Don’t do that! If you were coaching a newbie would you tell him “you can’t shoot rapid fire” or “you can’t keep them in the black” or, even worse “you suck at” this or that?
 
Of course you wouldn’t.
 
When analyzing a shot or string, observe what went right, or what needs work, but leave the judgement out of it. Talking yourself down is counter-productive. You’ve shot good shots and strings. You know you can do it. Some days will be better than others. Stay calm. Coach yourself like you’d coach a friend.
 
(also, I do recommend the book)

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Post by mikemyers 8/11/2018, 10:30 pm

CR10X wrote:You are still missing the most important thing after multiple posts among multiple topics since you started..............As soon as you start asking why a shot is out of the group, then you have completely lost sight of what you are trying to do.........
There's a lot that I could say, but before I say anything else, in one sentence, what do you guys think I am trying to do?   Or put differently, what is the goal?  Most of what has been written so far is the "means to an end".  What is this "end"?

(I know what it is for me, but I doubt it is the same as what you guys think....   which probably explains what looks like a lack of communication.)
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Post by tceva 8/12/2018, 4:57 am

Mike, I am new to this, but it has finally started to sink in.  After it is all done, training , load development, hardware tweaking, it all comes down to performing the perfect execution of your shot plan each and every time.  In a match that is 270 times of your best efforts to duplicate the perfect shot.  If the foundation is good the scoring will take care of itself.  That's it.  Each and every shot is your best mentally and physically.  If you fail at any point.  There is nothing you can do about it.  That's history. Shoot in the here and now.
Alex
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Post by fpk 8/12/2018, 9:13 am

Mike, if you have not read "The Inner Game of Tennis" (Timothy Gallwey), then I wholeheartedly recommend it for someone of your analytical bent. It gives a different perspective on the things that others have been saying that ultimately focuses your observations of non-good shots in a productive way into natural learning. It has helped me get past the point you are at right now, and start to be able to leverage what the Cecil and the others are saying.

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http://brazosprecision.com

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Post by dronning 8/12/2018, 10:06 am

mikemyers wrote:There's a lot that I could say, but before I say anything else, in one sentence, what do you guys think I am trying to do?   Or put differently, what is the goal?  Most of what has been written so far is the "means to an end".  What is this "end"?

(I know what it is for me, but I doubt it is the same as what you guys think....   which probably explains what looks like a lack of communication.)
What are you trying to do?
Your questions lead me to believe you are still trying to improve.

What's your goal?
As far as goals are concerned those are up to you and your training should be supporting them no matter how grand or simple they are.

Best goal setting process I've ever read explained here:
4 Types of Goals to Help You Shoot Better

- Dave

Mike, I'm not sure where you came up with "means to an end" because all the responses have been about shot improvement, which is an ongoing process.
Lack of communication?  The message has been very clear and consistent from multiple people and posts.
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Post by mikemyers 8/12/2018, 2:26 pm

dronning wrote:
mikemyers wrote:There's a lot that I could say, but before I say anything else, in one sentence, what do you guys think I am trying to do?   Or put differently, what is the goal?  Most of what has been written so far is the "means to an end".  What is this "end"?

(I know what it is for me, but I doubt it is the same as what you guys think....   which probably explains what looks like a lack of communication.)
What are you trying to do?
Your questions lead me to believe you are still trying to improve.

What's your goal?
As far as goals are concerned those are up to you and your training should be supporting them no matter how grand or simple they are.

Best goal setting process I've ever read explained here:
4 Types of Goals to Help You Shoot Better

- Dave

Mike, I'm not sure where you came up with "means to an end" because all the responses have been about shot improvement, which is an ongoing process.
Lack of communication?  The message has been very clear and consistent from multiple people and posts.
Difficult to reply - what I meant, is there are usually many ways to accomplish a goal.  For as long as I can remember, whether it be real motorcycles, radio control car racing, and now shooting, I have started out by doing a lot of reading, then doing, and one by one eliminating the mistakes.  Eventually, what was left was something reasonably good, and with practice I could improve.

My goal two years ago was to put 10 rounds from any gun I have into a 4" grouping at 15 yards.  Now I have two goals, doing the same thing, but now at 25 yards.  And another goal is to do this one handed.  

I am not going to get encouraged or discouraged by anything someone says, or looking at old targets, or whatever - as long as my ability, measured with CEP, is improving, I am pleased.  When people tell me I'm using center hold, and to change, I try it.  When someone told me from my original video that my gun was slipping in my hand, I correct it.  I used to flinch, and blink, and so on - found a way to fix that.  I wasn't using natural aim, and someone at the club told me how to improve that.

If I had a coach, things would be different - but I don't.

If I was competing, I guess I would be concerned about scores, but I don't, so I'm not.

I don't care if the grouping is off one way or another, as I know how to correct that.

It all comes down to getting the technique (fundamentals) right, and for me not to muck it up.


I've been in a match twice, but I wasn't competing.  I just shot the way I normally did, without worrying about scores.  I have only one person I'm competing with, and that is myself.  

Many of the things I've learned here are part of my "shot process" that I only learned about in this forum - never knew about it, or did it, before.  



Maybe because I don't have a coach, that is why I think some of your ideas don't fit me.  Had I not realized my 1911 was "moving" inside my hands/grip, I probably would be holding it the same way now.  I've learned what I "should" do through this forum, and also learned what I "should not" do.  I think today, same as always, that if I stop making "mistakes", I will be getting better.


Last thing - I'm not doing any of this because I want to "beat" someone else.  I'm doing it because I enjoy it.  If I get too serious, and it becomes "work", I'll probably lose interest.  Radio Control Car Racing got too serious - after traveling around to World Championships all over the planet, photographing, writing, and so on, I realized that I used to enjoy it more when I had inexpensive cars and was racing with my friends.  Same thing now - I enjoy going to the range, shooting, reloading, cleaning, and discussing it.  It's fun, and relaxing, and a challenge.  Reading what is posted here makes it that much more interesting.  I may have limitations from my age, my eyes, and so on, but none of that is relevant as long as I believe I can shoot better "tomorrow" than "yesterday".  It's also enjoyable for me to shoot all the different guns I have now, and soon I'll know how to shoot my black powder gun.  

Thanks for all the advice that you and everyone else is giving me, but I need to filter it into "what works for me" (as in sub-6 hold) and what is irrelevant for me (encourage/discourage).  I'll probably never shoot in a major match, and if I compete in a club match, it won't be to "compete".  

I'm just trying to get "better"; I'm not trying to achieve what you guys have already achieved.  For many reasons.  I admire what you've done, and can do, but that's not my goal.
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Post by orpheoet 8/12/2018, 3:45 pm

Shooting some Bullseye matches and focusing on fundamentals will get you to your goal faster than trying to figure it out on your own. Just my opinion....
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Post by mikemyers 8/12/2018, 3:51 pm

I'm sure you're right, on both counts.
I'm already trying to focus on fundamentals.
If I'm in town when the club holds upcoming matches, I'll participate.
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Post by JNW1 8/12/2018, 10:15 pm

I’m slowly mastering the fundamentals of pistol shooting, but was a master class sporting clays shooter for a number of years.  Two things helped elevate my shooting ability and helped me build an incredible base of fundamentals that serve me to this day.  First, I bought lessons from the best instructor in the game, Dan Carlisle.  He helped me with the mechanics of the game and introduced me to the second major factor that aided me - Lanny Basham.  I have his CDs on Sporting Clays, With Winning in Mind and Freedom Flight.  I also noticed when Carlisle was working with me he didn’t tell me what was wrong, but how to do things correctly.  There is a huge difference in the psychology of these two approaches.  Positive thoughts lead to positive outcomes.
I’m also reading Brian Enos’ “Practical Shooting - Beyond Fundamentals”.  Even though it’s about action shooting, his mental approach applies to all forms of pistol shooting.  Being in the moment, a Zen thing, is key to performing at a high level.  One of the main things I like about shooting is that the lessons you learn can be applied to other parts of your life.  Really.
Basham tells the story of a rifle shooter who shot a 399/400 in world competition.  He won his event by a large margin.  Several shooters came up and asked him what went wrong on his one 9.  His response was that they should be asking him how he took 39 perfect shots.
Jeff

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Post by RodJ 10/25/2021, 12:13 pm

Oleg G wrote:This is for Mike Myers,

I want to try to explain things in a slightly different light. You approach shooting as a problem to be solved, or as a piece of broken machinery or electronics, which needs to be repaired.

You wrote:

"The way I fixed that was to figure out what I did wrong, that caused the crash, and learn to do things differently."

This a good way to restore something to the previously known good working condition - you find the broken part, replace it and thing is back to normal.

However, you are learning a new skill, there is no previously known good working condition. Therefore, there is nothing to fix. There is nothing broken. You are not doing anything wrong. You simply have not yet learned how to do the right thing consistently time after time. Thus, you need to focus on repeating the steps you performed correctly in the same exact way, instead of analyzing the steps you performed incorrectly.
I recall how I learned to ride a bike when I was a child: every time I fell off, I simply got back onto the bike and tried to ride again, repeating this until I learned to do things correctly and no longer was failing off the bike. I did not stop to think about what exactly I did wrong that led me to fall off the bike, I simply brushed it off, brushed off my knees as well, and got back on the bike with the goal to do the right thing and ride the durned thing!

Stop trying to fix something that is not broken and instead focus on learning this new skill, which you have not yet mastered.

Hope this helps,
Oleg.
Dredging up this thread — and this post in particular, because it is GOLD. I want to imprint this concept and perspective into my brain.

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