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Practice time?

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rreid
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Practice time? Empty Practice time?

Post by ragged claws 8/24/2018, 7:06 pm

As a beginner to this sport I want to make the best use of my home practice time. I'm willing to put in a lot of time to learn the fundamentals properly but at 71 years old don't want to damage any of these old muscles or bones. Practicing stance and position is not very taxing and I can do this several times a day. Practicing sight alignment, grip, and trigger control is more difficult to sustain for any length of time. My routine consists of holding a 4lb dumbell vertically at arms length for 35 seconds three times every other morning while trying to maintain a proper stance. I practice raising my model 41 once a minute for 10 to 15 seconds trying to keep the red dot from dancing around like a ballerina on crack. I do this 10 times before muscle fatigue makes the exercise counter productive. I do this twice a day, occasionally manipulating my trigger finger while trying not to milk the grip. I don't dry fire the model 41. I do the same routine with my 1911 but I do dry fire this gun. I guess my question is, is this routine too much for a new BE shooter or not enough to make steady progress?

Thanks,
Kim

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Post by rreid 8/24/2018, 8:06 pm

Here you go:  http://www.usashooting.org/library/Instructional/Pistol/pistol_sanderson_sept_oct_2009.pdf

Someone will be along shortly with info about snap caps or something that will work for dry firing the model 41.
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Post by fpk 8/24/2018, 8:18 pm

The standard drywall anchors work with the Model 41, just cut off the side where the extractor would grab it.

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Post by ragged claws 8/24/2018, 8:31 pm

rreid wrote:Here you go:  http://www.usashooting.org/library/Instructional/Pistol/pistol_sanderson_sept_oct_2009.pdf

Someone will be along shortly with info about snap caps or something that will work for dry firing the model 41.
Thanks so much for the link. I read it and will reread it several times.

Kim

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Post by ragged claws 8/24/2018, 8:33 pm

fpk wrote:The standard drywall anchors work with the Model 41, just cut off the side where the extractor would grab it.
Thanks fpk. I have a bunch of drywall anchors being delivered tomorrow. The ones I bought from my local Ace Hardware didn't have large enough rims. Hopefully the new ones will be better.

Kim

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Post by mikemyers 8/25/2018, 8:06 am

The biggest problem I had was "fatigue".  I found a great app (available for Android or IOS) named "Interval Timer", and set up ten cycles of "one minute holding", then "two minutes of rest".  As you mentioned, the red dot acted like it was drunk, and at first I couldn't even complete the whole drill.

I did it several times a day, most days, and kept a logbook (in addition to what the app kept).  After two weeks I was not getting as tired as before, and was completing the whole drill.  It wasn't obvious at first, but the red dot was gradually becoming more civilized.

Once I could do the whole drill, I got two 1.5 pound wrist weights, and put them on, in addition to the weight of the gun.  At first this was only good for one or two "cycles" of my routine, but gradually my muscles got more capable.  Once I could do so, I would wear the weights for the first half of the routine, then take them off and complete the other half.  Amazingly, when the weights came off, the gun started to feel like it was made from plastic.

With my Matchdot II sight, plus the weight of the M-41, it felt very heavy.  I told myself that if any time my arm started to shake, or if it felt uncomfortable, I'd stop and try again in a few hours.  

It seems to me that until the shaking/quivering/whatever stopped, that should be my primary objective.  I knew it was probably meaningless, but while doing the drill, I would apply pressure to the trigger anyway, as if I was shooting.  I doubt it helped with trigger control, but it certainly helped in finding where and how to use my trigger without moving the gun out of alignment.

One last thing.  Since I was mostly shooting at NRA B-8 targets, I figured the diameter that a "target" needed to be, to paste on the wall/door that I was shooting at.  Once the red dot was smooth enough, I tried to keep it within the area of that circle.  

(I did this originally for two-hand shooting.  Then I started to do the same routine to be able to hold the gun up with one hand.  That seemed to take me forever, even just to hold my gun up, let alone worry about the red dot!!  I need to continue with this - lots of great people in this forum offered a huge amount of advice, but in my mind, until I could just hold the gun up in front of me, without it wiggling all over, for the time to take one shot, I wasn't ready yet to do all the other things.  Lots of people have lots of different ideas on this - for me, what I described seemed to work.  I even made up a "mock-up gun" (out of a mobile phone case, a ruler, tape to make a rear sight, and a toothpick to make a front sight), and practiced with it when I was away from home.)
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Post by ragged claws 8/25/2018, 9:32 am

Thanks Mike for this info. I will incorporate it into my daily routine. Got to tame that dancing dot.

Kim

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Post by mikemyers 8/25/2018, 3:51 pm

Kim, just based on my own experience, it's impossible to tame the dancing dot.  If you read the threads here that came from Dave Salyer, at this moment in time, that's how you shoot. Ignore it - just center the dancing dot over the bullseye, knowing that the hole is likely to appear on the target somewhere within that area....   which is why Dave referred to it as "Area Aiming".  I don't know how this works for others, but I have been noticing that as time goes by, the dancing dot gets less and less agitated.  Do NOT try to shoot when the dot just happens to be over the bullseye.  That's just a moment in time, an by the time you shoot it will be history - the dot (and hole) will be elsewhere.  If you follow all the other advice in this forum about fundamentals, and simply keep the blur from the dot centered over the bullseye (not the dot, the "blur"), you'll be shooting at your capability.  The holes in the target will be somewhere within your ability to group.  And remember, the shots may be anywhere within that area.  If one is dead on, and the other is three inches away, your group size might be six inches.  You can never shoot better than your group size allows, but with practice, your group size will decrease.
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Post by Chris Miceli 8/25/2018, 7:42 pm

hard hold and a hard grip with a heavy trigger i see no dancing.

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Post by mikemyers 8/25/2018, 7:53 pm

Chris, until just now, I had no idea what a "Labrum" was.  Ouch.  I hope you heal quickly, and all is normal again.  The site I visited (https://www.regenexx.com/shoulder-labral-tear-surgery-pros-cons/) is talking about weeks, not months, of recovery.  Best wishes!!!!!!!!
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Post by Chris Miceli 8/25/2018, 7:56 pm

mikemyers wrote:Chris, until just now, I had no idea what a "Labrum" was.  Ouch.  I hope you heal quickly, and all is normal again.  The site I visited (https://www.regenexx.com/shoulder-labral-tear-surgery-pros-cons/) is talking about weeks, not months, of recovery.  Best wishes!!!!!!!!
more like 6months - year

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Post by ragged claws 8/25/2018, 8:01 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:hard hold and a hard grip with a heavy trigger i see no dancing.
What is the difference between a hard hold and a hard grip? A firm grip on my 1911 is doable now, but I have a tendency to lighten the grip and elbow lock when I pull the trigger. A firm grip on my S&W model 41 is more problematic for me because of the wide grips. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Kim

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Post by Wobbley 8/25/2018, 8:13 pm

ragged claws wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:hard hold and a hard grip with a heavy trigger i see no dancing.
What is the difference between a hard hold and a hard grip? A firm grip on my 1911 is doable now, but I have a tendency to lighten the grip and elbow lock when I pull the trigger. A firm grip on my S&W model 41 is more problematic for me because of the wide grips. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Kim
Some people go with a set of custom slabs on the 41 that duplicate the 45 grip.  

Resist and train away the tendency to lighten the grip and elbow when you activate the trigger.  Your scores will improve.
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Post by Chris Miceli 8/25/2018, 8:17 pm

https://vimeo.com/282752415

you'll see some weaker looking holds and some that just by looking at them you can tell they are hold hard.
For me a hard old is a tight core, lat tight shoulder blade back. I'm not talking 100% maxed but a firm use of them. Knees aren't locked but not bent either. 

 Lightening the grip while pulling the trigger is a big no no. I recommend you fire with your forearm on top of your shooting box while you develop a proper grip and trigger squeeze.

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Post by fpk 8/25/2018, 8:44 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:For me a hard old is a tight core, lat tight shoulder blade back. I'm not talking 100% maxed but a firm use of them. Knees aren't locked but not bent either. 

 Lightening the grip while pulling the trigger is a big no no. I recommend you fire with your forearm on top of your shooting box while you develop a proper grip and trigger squeeze.
I am currently going through this phase of development, and holding hard is making a difference in controlling the "fliers" I would see before. I have been conditioning arms and hand using a variety of grip and forearm exercise tools so that I can hold hard and not get tired or shake. These have been working.

The part about lightening grip is spot on, and was a problem for me. Just today I started to train against this by copying something that I noticed John Shue was doing at the nationals. Every shot continued past the recoil until it recovered back on target like it was going to be a follow-up shot. Gripping hard through the shot makes this happen and is also helping.

Of course, Chris introduced me to all of this, so I am very grateful to my "don't suck" coach!

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Post by ragged claws 8/26/2018, 10:57 am

A lot of info guys. I'll be trying to put it into practice over the coming days and weeks of dry fire work and range time. Chris, I tried flexing my upper back and right shoulder muscles while practicing my stance at the dog park this morning. I think I can feel what you are talking about when saying hard hold. I'm going to try and practice trigger pull without loosening my grip or unlocking my elbow by supporting my arm on a table while pressing reward with the trigger finger. By separating tasks (not holding the gun out at arms length and worrying about sight alignment) maybe I can "divide and conquer" the fine points of this discipline.

Kim

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