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Muzzle jumpp

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Post by thessler Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:53 am

Hi 
New shooter here. I have been working  on trying to figure out the proper grip. While doing so I have been watching the muzzle when I fire. If I shoot left handed the muzzle will jump up to the right. If I shoot right handed the muzzle will jump up to the left but not quite as bad. I'm guessing it should  jump straight up.
I have been very conscious to make sure the gun is vertical as I pull the trigger. 
Any thoughts on this greatly appreciated,  maybe this is ok and I'm over thinking. 
Thanks, Tom

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Post by cdrt Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:18 am

Pretty typical of how a pistol recoils.  When I shoot the CMP as-issued match with my Auto Ordnance 1911A1, right handed the gun moves to the left and up, when I shoot left handed, it moves to the right.
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Post by DA/SA Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:28 am

The gun takes the path of least resistance.

When shooting left handed, the greater amount of support from your hand is on the left side of the gun, so it moves up and to the right.

When shooting right handed, the greater amount of support from your hand is on the right side of the gun, so it moves up and to the left.

When shooting two handed, the idea is to balance your grip by adjusting the pressures from your hands to make the gun recoil vertically.

Torque from the barrel twist has an effect as well.
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Post by STEVE SAMELAK Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:29 am

If every thing was straight & symmetric recoil would be an arc sort of straight back.
Your wrist is at an angle, elbow is at an angle, shoulder....the list goes on.
What you see is a stacking of variables & normal.
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Post by Chris Miceli Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:32 am

But no one is talking about barrel twist direction and the torque from a spinning bullet!

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Post by thessler Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:06 pm

OK thanks guys,  I thought it might be a problem so I guess it's not.
I'll keep chugging along. 
Tom

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Post by Mike38 Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:57 pm

New shooter here. I have been working  on trying to figure out the proper grip. While doing so I have been watching the muzzle when I fire.

If you are hard focused on the front sight (or dot) how does a person watch the muzzle? I'm far from a Master, but maybe this is what you're doing wrong?
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Post by thessler Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:16 pm

I never said I'm doing anything wrong.
I'm trying to understand grip and every other aspect of what happens when the gun goes bang.
Tom

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Post by PhotoEscape Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:53 pm

thessler,
Combine what CM is saying about barrel twist and what DA/SA is saying about human anatomy (or in simple terms - human wrist has less resistance bending in the direction ones finger bend versus opposite), and you will notice that jump will be more pronounced when you are shooting with left arm then when you are shooting with right.  That is if you are shooting one armed, and no support from another arm.  So it is not so much of a proper grip, but rather how developed superficial layer muscles in you forearm.
AP
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Post by james r chapman Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:47 am

That's why lefties should shoot exotic reverse twist barrels.
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Post by 10sandxs Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:12 pm

james r chapman wrote:That's why lefties should shoot exotic reverse twist barrels.
I'm calling KKM tomorrow lol!

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Post by john bickar Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:51 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:But no one is talking about barrel twist direction and the torque from a spinning bullet!

Not to mention the Coriolis Effect. How could you forget that?

I thought you were a serious pistol shooter.
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Post by Wes Lorenz Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:42 am

Thessler,
When I started BE my mentor told me that recoil is irrelevant and that the bullet is long gone before you feel the recoil. Just concentrate on front sight and trigger press.
There is no difference between shooting an air pistol or Hardball match.
Hope this helps,
Wes

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Post by Chris Miceli Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:58 am

john bickar wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:But no one is talking about barrel twist direction and the torque from a spinning bullet!

Not to mention the Coriolis Effect. How could you forget that?

I thought you were a serious pistol shooter.
so i will be a better shooter when i move to the southern world.

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Post by PhotoEscape Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:06 pm

I don't think, you'll be a better shooter, Chris, by moving closer to John.  Remember, by flying direct you'll be fighting Coriolis Effect from Earth rotation, unless you fly easterly route through entire Europe, Siberia and Pacific.  If you decide to fly the Northern Pole route, you'll have to account for Wind Deflection too. Very Happy

However getting back to original question, it would be nice if either of you, CM / JB, can explain that process of shot consists of several phases (in your own words and without sending OP to AMU manual), that are incremental in nature and should be considered somewhat independent from each other for training purpose, - grip, rise, target acquisition, sight alignment, trigger control, bang, muzzle flip/jump, recovery, start over, - feel free to correct me as you deem necessary.  Ability to control each of these and combine them in one natural and seamless progression make you the best in the game!!

Where is Jason on this thread??
AP
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Post by Chris Miceli Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:24 pm

I just watched some YouTube videos, it’s all a lie the earth is flat

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Post by Allgoodhits Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:40 am

...and factor in the extractor location on one side and ejection port on other.

...but my Ranson Rest recoils straight up and back?

I'll go with Anatomy as "best" answer.
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Post by bdas Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:24 am

Allgoodhits wrote:...and factor in the extractor location on one side and ejection port on other.

...but my Ranson Rest recoils straight up and back?

I'll go with Anatomy as "best" answer.

I've wondered whether people who grip a 1911 by only putting pressure on the front strap and back strap (as some claim to do), get a closer-to-vertical recoil, compared to people who grip it the more traditional way, by wrapping their hand around the grip and thus touching / applying pressure to it on all sides.

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Post by Jon Eulette Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:39 am

I used to shoot gripping the pistol only on the front strap and back strap with no finger pressure for many years. Shot 2650’s like this. I now shoot using entire hand to grip; fingers and thumb. I’m much more consistent. The pistol still recoils the same but I have less gripping related error.
Jon
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