Question about Kart conversion unit

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Post by SW-52 on 12/4/2018, 5:24 pm

I read a  jerry keefer post with a comment about the kart conversion was the best conversion he work between marvel ,Nelson,etc. In this days,Are the Old Kart .22 conversion unit a good option for bullseye shooting? Pros and Cons? Thanks!
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Post by ric1911a1 on 12/4/2018, 5:36 pm

Still a good shooter, but today's Nelson and Marvel are not nearly as finicky, in my opinion. I've had all 3, and currently use the Nelson.
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Post by PMcfall on 12/4/2018, 5:47 pm

I have shot a Kart for maybe 25 years.  Once I got the magazines tuned, I never had any problems.  I would say I might have one alibi per year at most.  It shoots very well and with the Dworack shroud, balanced very well for me.
Phil
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Post by Jon Eulette on 12/4/2018, 5:47 pm

I built a Kart conversion about a year ago that ran flawlessly after working out all the issues. I shot close to 500 rds through it to make sure it ran. Darn good pistol. I think they all need minor tweaks to be just right. I’d be willing to bet if you picked one up it will need minor work to run reliably.
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Post by SW-52 on 12/4/2018, 5:58 pm

PMcfall wrote:I have shot a Kart for maybe 25 years.  Once I got the magazines tuned, I never had any problems.  I would say I might have one alibi per year at most.  It shoots very well and with the Dworack shroud, balanced very well for me.
Phil
Dworak is the exact copy of karts but only in 6",kart make 5" versions.
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Post by SW-52 on 12/4/2018, 6:01 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:I built a Kart conversion about a year ago that ran flawlessly after working out all the issues. I shot close to 500 rds through it to make sure it ran. Darn good pistol. I think they all need minor tweaks to be just right. I’d be willing to bet if you picked one up it will need minor work to run reliably.
Jon
Very interesting. This conversions are optics friendly? Dworak sells scope mount in 6" but apparently kart make 5" versions.
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Post by Multiracer on 12/4/2018, 6:02 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:I built a Kart conversion about a year ago that ran flawlessly after working out all the issues. I shot close to 500 rds through it to make sure it ran. Darn good pistol. I think they all need minor tweaks to be just right. I’d be willing to bet if you picked one up it will need minor work to run reliably.
Jon
What were "all" the issues and are these barrels micro groove rifling ?

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Post by james r chapman on 12/4/2018, 6:31 pm

the nelson is not micro grooved.
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Post by Multiracer on 12/4/2018, 7:29 pm

james r chapman wrote:the nelson is not micro grooved.
Agreed, the OP is about Kart conversions.

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Post by Kermit Workman on 12/4/2018, 8:46 pm

The Kart is still capable of winning scores. Karts have not been made for about 35 years meaning there are few units that are primstine. They have no provisions for optics. as they were all iron sights. They have a steel shroud and by the time you drill and tap and add optics you have a pretty heavy pistol. Most all Karts are 6" barrels, but there was 5" barrels made. I have heard the number was around 12 units total for 5"pistols.
The Dworaks are a copy but they had an aluminum shroud that would accept Weaver rings so mounting optics is not a problem. I do not believe John Dworak is still making those units. Magazines for both units is complicated as the Colt Ace magazines made by Metalform are no longer made. I have found the Jagemann magazine works well but needs to be modified to allow the slide to come all the way forward.
If I was going to shoot a conversion,I think the path of least resistance is a Marvel or Nelson unit. They are probably less expensive than a Kart and you have customer service available.

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Post by Jon Eulette on 12/4/2018, 9:50 pm

Kermit,
What do you know about the Colt .22 Conversions that Fred converted into Karts?
Jon
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Post by SW-52 on 12/5/2018, 5:33 am

Kermit Workman wrote:The Kart is still capable of winning scores. Karts have not been made for about 35 years meaning there are few units that are primstine. They have no provisions for optics. as they were all iron sights. They have a steel shroud and by the time you drill and tap and add optics you have a pretty heavy pistol. Most all Karts are 6" barrels, but there was 5" barrels made. I have heard the number was around 12 units total for 5"pistols.
 The Dworaks are a copy but they had an aluminum shroud that would accept Weaver rings so mounting optics is not a problem. I do not believe John Dworak is still making those units. Magazines for both units is complicated as the Colt Ace magazines made by Metalform are no longer made. I have found the Jagemann magazine works well but needs to be modified to allow the slide to come all the way forward.
If I was going to shoot a conversion,I think the path of least resistance is a Marvel or Nelson unit. They are probably less expensive than a Kart and you have customer service available.
Wow 12 units of 5",very scarce.
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Post by robert84010 on 12/5/2018, 3:54 pm

Kermit, 
Just curious if you got the count of 12 from Fred. I find that hard to believe based on the number that I have personally seen. I heard "about 10 % of total production". Which would put it around 40.


Last edited by robert84010 on 12/5/2018, 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by ric1911a1 on 12/5/2018, 4:29 pm

I believe there are a lot more than 12 of the 5" version. I've had 2 of them...............
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Post by SW-52 on 12/6/2018, 5:31 am

ric1911a1 wrote:I believe there are a lot more than 12 of the 5" version. I've had 2 of them...............
 I bought  yesterday on morning one 5" Kart conversion with two Mags customized by Nygord on ebay. Was expensive,but is more expensive lost the opportunity of buy a great and classic Conversion.
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Post by CR10X on 12/6/2018, 5:40 am

I would love to know how I missed that since I'm checking ebay every day or two for Kart and Bob Day related items.  The only one I ever saw with a Nygord reference was a 6 inch version.

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Post by kc.crawford.7 on 12/6/2018, 6:39 am

That makes 2 of us!
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Post by DA/SA on 12/6/2018, 7:12 am

Apparently listed on Dec 3rd.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-VINTAGE-KART-1911-22LR-5-CONVERSION-KIT-2-MAGAZINES-NYGORD-CUSTOMIZED/132876931475?hash=item1ef0151193:g:TpgAAOSwZupcBfte

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Post by CR10X on 12/6/2018, 8:29 am

SW-52:

Very nice find.   And the packaging looks like some of the original shipping packaging that I've seen as well.   

Check the serial number on the slide.  If its a 3 digit number or less, then its probably one of the original 5 inch units.  If more than that, it's may have had a slide replacement or a later modified unit.  

IN ANY EVENT, that was a very good price for a 5 inch in that condition. And please get someone who knows what to do when fitting the unit if you have any issues!

CONGRATULATIONS!

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Post by SW-52 on 12/6/2018, 1:36 pm

CR10X wrote:SW-52:

Very nice find.   And the packaging looks like some of the original shipping packaging that I've seen as well.   

Check the serial number on the slide.  If its a 3 digit number or less, then its probably one of the original 5 inch units.  If more than that, it's may have had a slide replacement or a later modified unit.  

IN ANY EVENT, that was a very good price for a 5 inch in that condition. And please get someone who knows what to do when fitting the unit if you have any issues!

CONGRATULATIONS!
Yes a Great find,and was the first time i saw a 5" version. No original box. Thanks for the details,i will check in time i receive the Kart conversion.
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Post by Kermit Workman on 12/6/2018, 7:52 pm

Robert,
I heard it from a fellow shooter so it might be inaccurate. I have one and the guy who told me had 2. That's the only ones I knew about.
Jon,
I knew of one "Kart" that was made on a Colt. The owner told me it was built on a 45 Gold Cup but now that I think about it that does not make sense as the Colt Ace or conversion would be a better place to start. The one I have seen was originally owned by Ivan Hall and his son Brooks was shooting it some time in the early to mid 1980's. I think both are now deceased. Ivan was a gunsmith that built 45's for the local shooters around Summersville WV. I remember the slide was cut to the approximate shape of a present Kart. I think it had a Douglas barrel. Ivan was very close friends to Ed Williams also of Summersville. A person who may know more than I would be John Hash of Huntington. I can get you contact info if you want to talk to him. John is still an active shooter and was close friends with Ed and Ivan.

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Post by robert84010 on 12/6/2018, 8:14 pm

I have two and know a friend with one, and I know of one person here besides you with one. The one on ebay two days ago was the third one i've passed on. I debated on buying for two hours and passed. I was glad to see it gone by morning and happy it was bought by someone here.

Seems like has to be a couple dozen at least?

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Post by Jon Eulette on 12/6/2018, 8:53 pm

Thanks Kermit. I was just curious what you knew. I don’t feel the need to talk to him. The history on some of our guns is easily overlooked. I’ve really enjoyed this post. Tom Ginovsky shared some info with me as well. 
Jon
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