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Pistol recommendation  Empty Pistol recommendation

Post by roofdown on 12/14/2018, 3:57 pm

Newby here. Looking for some advice on a bullseye pistol. Here's my situation: I've been on a team at my local club for the last 3 years. I'm currently shooting a CZ Kadet (.22 conversion for a 9mm). My scores avg about 235-240 (I don't think the 6# trigger is helping... Ha).

Anyway, I'm now looking to get a pistol more suited to bullseye, but don't want to spend a ton (ideally less than $1000 all-in... already have an optic so don't need that).

I've been looking at the Ruger Mark IV and the S&W Victory. I can get a used MKIV Hunter for $500 and a used Victory for $250 at a shop near me. Assuming that both will need some trigger work, perhaps grips, and maybe a upgraded barrel (on the Victory). Any thoughts on the best way to go? Or other suggestions?

Some additional requirements besides < $1,000:
-Reliable: don't want something finicky. Need to be able to shoot CCI Std (for example) w/o regular failures.
-Easy to clean: don't want to spend hours fiddling with it.
-Accurate: I don't expect to become a world-class shooter, but want something that's decent quality (and I won't "grow out of it" anytime soon).

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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Post by TonyH on 12/14/2018, 4:20 pm

This is just from my personal experience....
Get the S&W Victory, the factory barrel in the gun shoots phenomenally well and there is no need for a custom barrel. Put a Tandemkross Victory trigger in it ($40) and go shoot it. It will take you all the way to Master level if you do your part.
All for less than $350 with change to spare.
Once you get up to Expert and above, you will have a much better idea of what you like or dislike about different gun types and will be able to make a much better & informed personal decision. Save the other $650 towards that gun....
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Post by dronning on 12/14/2018, 4:29 pm

TonyH wrote:This is just from my personal experience....
Get the S&W Victory, the factory barrel in the gun shoots phenomenally well and there is no need for a custom barrel. Put a Tandemkross Victory trigger in it ($40) and go shoot it. It will take you all the way to Master level if you do your part.
All for less than $350 with change to spare.
Once you get up to Expert and above, you will have a much better idea of what you like or dislike about different gun types and will be able to make a much better & informed personal decision. Save the other $650 towards that gun....
+1 on the above.

One other option is if you have a 1911 get a 22 conversion from Nelson.  If your 1911 trigger needs improvement it can be done for around $200 (with parts) which still keeps you well below $1,000.
- Dave
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Post by noproblem on 12/14/2018, 6:13 pm

Ruger Mark IV =  Reliable ,Easy to clean, Accurate, tons of after market upgrade available   

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Post by LenV on 12/14/2018, 6:18 pm

Wearing my contrarian hat. Of those two choices I would pick the Ruger. In fact I did pick the Ruger. A Volquartzen trigger and a set of Hogue grips and it made a tac driver.

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Post by Jon Eulette on 12/14/2018, 6:18 pm

Victory is too light for BE. Get a 5-1/2” barreled Ruger and a trigger job and that’s all you need.
Jon
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Post by roofdown on 12/14/2018, 6:34 pm

Thanks for all the replies. Good to see a few different points of view.

@Jon Eulette I'm curious why you recommend a 5 1/2" barrel. Should I avoid the longer Mk IV 6.88 barrel (for example)? I "assumed" that longer barrel = more accuracy, but is that not the case?

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Post by Jon Eulette on 12/14/2018, 6:57 pm

Too much weight out front and longer barrel is unforgiving to shoot. 5-1/2” barrel balances well. I used to compete with a Ruger and shot 880’s with no problem! Good guns.
Jon
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Post by roofdown on 12/14/2018, 7:27 pm

Got it. Appreciate the insight.

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Post by Wobbley on 12/14/2018, 7:56 pm

While Rugers and Victories can get you by, don’t be afraid of upping your game....

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/793756064   (This isn’t mine, just an example)...

A bit more but there’s a lot of extras in this package...(if it’s still available). https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t10927-wts-smith-wesson-model-41
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Post by TonyH on 12/14/2018, 7:58 pm

Victory is too light for BE. Get a 5-1/2” barreled Ruger and a trigger job and that’s all you need.
No disrespect here....but based on the model of Ruger Mk IV selected, the gun may be lighter or heavier than a S&W Victory. The aluminum framed target models are slightly lighter, the steel ones are slightly heavier. The 22/45 model is very definitely lighter.....and a lot of people use those. Opinions....sigh!
Just go buy either one or something else suitable, based on what you like and start working on fundamentals and have fun shooting!
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Post by PhotoEscape on 12/14/2018, 8:12 pm

I'm partial to old Hi Standards, and specifically Victor model from Hamden or Hartford production times.  Very often such can be purchased of Gun Broker for sub-$600 with barrel weight, rail and red dot included.  That would be my recommendation.
AP
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Post by Jon Eulette on 12/14/2018, 8:34 pm

AP brings up a very good point. I was sticking to the two original pistol versions Wink
The HS is a much better pistol than the Ruger. The triggers are 100% consistent from pull to pull ( Ruger tolerances give you about 8/10), the grip is exactly like the 1911 45 so the transition from gun to gun is easier. They are typically accurate and shoot most ammunition well. I love my HS.
Jon
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Post by roofdown on 12/15/2018, 6:34 am

I've seen Hi Standards mentioned elsewhere but have never seen one in-person. Would you recommend the Sport King as well, or just the Victor? Any common problems to look out for or important questions to ask if I find one of these online? I'm a little leery about buying something 30+ years old in case it breaks on me... any issues getting parts for these?

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Post by NukeMMC on 12/15/2018, 7:26 am

I shoot High Standards also.  Find a Citation, Trophy or Victor.  If you shop on GB for one, look at the breech face and see if there's a firing pin ding at 1 o'clock.  Stick with a Hamden or E. Hartford as mentioned above, but preferably not a "SH" series.  Those bolt to the frame from the bottom with an allen head screw.
106 and 107 series pistols have the more vertical grip like a 1911.  The 103 or 104 series have a more slanted grip like the Ruger.
ONLY shoot standard velocity ammo in a HS.  Dad was the pistol coach at a university that had a bunch of HS, both LR and shorts.  They shot DCM ammo (mostly Remington or Olin White Box) and every one of those guns eventually cracked their frame on the right side, from the magazine pushbutton track straight up thru the slide rails.  The shorts, with their aluminum slides, went first.  But then again, he never re-sprung them.  That probably killed them as much as anything.

I also have a Ruger Mk3 5 1/2" bull barrel.  Bought it used for under $300 at a local gun shop.  Added the Ruger scope rail ($25) a Primary Arms dot ($150) Clark trigger ($40) Volquartsen sear ($25) and as set of Herrett's Nationals grips ($65).  A little polishing on sear bar, frame internals, sear sides and some TW25 to keep things sliding and rotating nice and slick.  It shoots great, eats any ammo, reliable as they get and makes for a fine backup to my Victor.  Now that I have a 2nd Victor, I loaned the Ruger to a guy on our winter league who was struggling with his Victory and a plague of alibi's he was having (in addition to a horrible trigger).  He just shot his high score for the year with no alibi's.  He had a huge smile.

There are plenty of options out there.  Find one in your budget that is reliable.  It will be accurate enough .  When you get to the point where you outshoot any of the above mentioned pistols, you'll be doing pretty doggone well.
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Post by roofdown on 12/15/2018, 7:57 am

Thanks @NukeMMC, very helpful.

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Post by kashaV on 12/15/2018, 10:20 am

Another option would be turning that 6lb. trigger to a 2.8lb with some polishing, a CGW trigger, sear and return spring. Approx. $150.00. The accuracy potential is there.

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Post by Paul M. on 12/15/2018, 10:50 am

Once in a while you come across a used S&W 41, they are not a bad choice. New, ive seen them around $1200.00, but you can get them used within your budget.
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Post by LenV on 12/15/2018, 11:13 am

I have to throw another suggestion into the pot. They are current production with parts available. They use a frame that custom grips have been made for for a long time. They are easy to clean and affordable. They also come ready for a dot. The Browning Buckmark is also a tack driver. This picture has my old pistol and the current production. I forget if it is called the "Hunter" or "Target" model. HS and 41 also great choices.

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Post by troystaten on 12/15/2018, 12:09 pm

A clean S&W 41 is probably priced out of your budget but the High Standards are very nice and have nice triggers, if you can find a clean used one it's worth a look.

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Post by PhotoEscape on 12/15/2018, 9:46 pm

NukeMMC wrote:I shoot High Standards also.  Find a Citation, Trophy or Victor.  If you shop on GB for one, look at the breech face and see if there's a firing pin ding at 1 o'clock.  Stick with a Hamden or E. Hartford as mentioned above, but preferably not a "SH" series.  Those bolt to the frame from the bottom with an allen head screw.

I wouldn't shy away for HS Victor guns with serial number starting for "SH".  NukeMMC is absolutely correct highlighting the fact that guns with this such serial numbers have barrel to receiver attachment by screw versus spring loaded lock.  The significance of this difference is in connection getting lose while shooting.  This is easily mitigated by applying mild strength treadlocker like Locktite 222MS every time you reassemble gun after cleaning.  Otherwise, guns with "SH" serial number were produced in E. Hartford facilities, and received to barrel connection is only noticeable difference with guns produces at E. Hamden. 
AP
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Post by Paul M. on 12/16/2018, 12:47 am

+1 on the “SH” serial numbered High Standards, I shoot one and have no problems with it at all.  However, there were some “SH” guns near the end that included a V in the serial number meaning there was a visible flaw or blemish and the very last ones made had an X in the serial number, from what I understand, those were bad.
PhotoEscape wrote:
NukeMMC wrote:I shoot High Standards also.  Find a Citation, Trophy or Victor.  If you shop on GB for one, look at the breech face and see if there's a firing pin ding at 1 o'clock.  Stick with a Hamden or E. Hartford as mentioned above, but preferably not a "SH" series.  Those bolt to the frame from the bottom with an allen head screw.

I wouldn't shy away for HS Victor guns with serial number starting for "SH".  NukeMMC is absolutely correct highlighting the fact that guns with this such serial numbers have barrel to receiver attachment by screw versus spring loaded lock.  The significance of this difference is in connection getting lose while shooting.  This is easily mitigated by applying mild strength treadlocker like Locktite 222MS every time you reassemble gun after cleaning.  Otherwise, guns with "SH" serial number were produced in E. Hartford facilities, and received to barrel connection is only noticeable difference with guns produces at E. Hamden. 
AP
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Post by robvasi on 12/29/2018, 11:47 am

I like revolvers,  own a Smith and Weson 327 TRR8.

Just wondered of anyone uses a revolver competition. If so, which one?


Last edited by robvasi on 12/29/2018, 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correct spelling)

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Post by james r chapman on 12/29/2018, 11:59 am

S&W Models 14-2, 14-7, 25-2
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Post by robvasi on 12/29/2018, 12:06 pm

james r chapman wrote:S&W Models 14-2, 14-7, 25-2
Thank you.

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