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what's the actual tested difference in the 7''vs 5.5" M41S&W

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what's the actual tested difference in the 7''vs 5.5" M41S&W Empty what's the actual tested difference in the 7''vs 5.5" M41S&W

Post by r.tornello Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:46 pm

Lets assume both have red dots and not iron sights; they are benched for greater accuracy eliminating human wobble and everything else, all variables are the same and equal as best as possible.

Is there any real difference also given both being well made barrels? I do understand the longer sight radius for iron but I'm not concerned with that especially at my age.

And BTW and contrary to what I've read and shot, the trigger on the 41PC is not all that great. It's okay, but as opposed to making the gun fit the human (see AW93 or Pardini SP22 or an IZH), it's the other way around.

My question concerns precision between barrels only.

Thanks,

RT
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Post by troystaten Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:24 pm

Just my opinion which with 5 bucks will get you 5 scratch off lottery tickets.  I don't think there will be any measurable difference in accuracy in the scenario you mentioned.  Now I guess if you really wanted to know you could get 10 barrels of each size and shoot them all with a rest with the same gun and same ammo and see if there is a difference, then use a different gun and do the same test to see if that changes anything.  Let us know what you find out.

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Post by TonyH Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:31 am

you could get 10 barrels of each size and shoot them all 
what's the actual tested difference in the 7''vs 5.5" M41S&W 3064385617
and when you done with that, I'll take the 5.5" one that shoots the best, off your hands!!Very Happy
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Post by r.tornello Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:46 am

Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate the humor  and honesty. Spending the money on the barrels as suggested, I might as well just just get the Pardini.

My 5.5 shoots rather well at 75 feet, 150 it's okay 9/10 slow fire. I was wondering if anyone had done or seen a test. BTW on the bench my 5.5  mostly Xs.

However I need finger surgery. Not a happy shooter.

But thank you again.

RT
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Post by r.tornello Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:48 am

that was xs at 75 feet, just to make that clear. At 150 it's not so tight. Using LAPUA CENTERX.
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Post by Wobbley Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:04 am

If you took a bunch of S&W 41 barrels putting each in a barrel fixture for testing, you’d find that each of the configurations would shoot well within the 10 ring at 50 yards with decent ammunition.  Some would be better with higher grade ammo.  No, a Ransom Rest is not the same.   But what this means is that the custom barrels and re-line jobs 
Just reduce the “fliers” (maybe).  So get one that you like how it balances in your hand.  Shoot that and quit worrying about stuff that doesn’t matter much.
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Post by STEVE SAMELAK Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:53 am

An associate & I ended up with 41s that were built within a short time span of each other, probably in the same run.
Both are 5-1/2" barrels, both favored different brands of ammo.
Both shot into the X ring at 50 yards with favored ammo & easily into 10 ring with the least accurate tested.
So it's my opinion that what works best in YOUR gun is what works best in your gun and that can only be determined by trial.

Now if I can only figure where those 5s & 6s are coming from.....
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Post by r.tornello Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:27 am

Again thanks. I have to have finger surgery. I have and no pun intended "trigger finger". My index and middle finger lock up. It's rather painful. I had shots but I've received the max so now it's the knife.

The 41 is an okay weapon. I just wish S&W made a real competition trigger for it. I feel it's one of the things holding it back from being in the top of the line. I have had Pardinis, AW93, a 208, and others.

I don't compete right now so this 41 fits the bill and for some strange reason, quirks and all, I like it. It has a RINK Bullseye grip and a very ancient Docter R/D 3.5. These two items alone make a huge difference without which I would I wouldn't keep it. 

I've been thinking of it using a set up from another manufacturer, not on my gun, but on a very used one that I can screw around with. I have to go over the diagrams and see what might be possible. Right now this is at the dreaming stage. I like to do things like this. Sometimes they work and many times, not. But it's fun none the less. 

It will hit the 10 and x at 150. On a bag it still sends some to the 9. I might need a more stable platform and a fixed hand, see above.

RT
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what's the actual tested difference in the 7''vs 5.5" M41S&W Empty Re: what's the actual tested difference in the 7''vs 5.5" M41S&W

Post by LenV Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:07 am

I can't believe I am actually showing everyone this barrel. This is usually the type of thing I bid on and gloat about afterwards. Laughing This is the one you want. Or someone wants.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Clarks-s-S-W-Model-41-Match-Barrel-Bullseye-Optic-Model/233042452305?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

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Post by PhotoEscape Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:19 am

Well, now I can explain my Marvel post, Len;
You are the first to find things on eBay, and then generously share information, as you did in this case.  Since it didn't happen with Marvel, I though, a little teasing might be in order. Smile  Now that Marvel went on for re-listing without catching any bids, I take, you didn't share information due to lack of your endorsement for it.
I cannot hold myself without a bit of more teasing, although it is also partially a professional interest.  If your thumb is ~60mm, I take rest of the fingers also in par.  How do you type!???  Special oversized keyboard, or else.....
AP
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what's the actual tested difference in the 7''vs 5.5" M41S&W Empty Re: what's the actual tested difference in the 7''vs 5.5" M41S&W

Post by troystaten Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:32 am

That was very nice of Len to show us that Clark barrel on e-bay.  And Steve is right, about the 5's and 6's I wish I could blame the barrel, the ammo or the gun but I don't think it is.  The most likely explanation I have is sun spots.  In all seriousness my 41 has a 7.375 inch barrel and it is easily X ring accuracy at 25 yards with CCI SV.  A friend has a 41 with the 5.5 inch barrel and it is the same.  They do feel different and I think that is a bigger deal.

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Post by r.tornello Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:17 pm

Seriously, with regard to the 7, maybe possible lower muzzle flip on rapid fire and return to point vs the 5.5?
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Post by lablover Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:47 pm

Great, now I’m off to a bidding war!


LenV wrote:I can't believe I am actually showing everyone this barrel. This is usually the type of thing I bid on and gloat about afterwards. Laughing This is the one you want. Or someone wants.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Clarks-s-S-W-Model-41-Match-Barrel-Bullseye-Optic-Model/233042452305?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

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Post by r.tornello Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:25 pm

Hey doc, looks like a 5.5
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Post by r.tornello Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:09 pm

Why don'y you all call CLARK and see what he charges for the same item?
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Post by WesG Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:06 pm

My 7" slugs .224, and the chamber seems quite loose. From limited testing in a ransom, IIRC, it almost holds the x ring at 50 yds with Eley yellow box (one off lot they labeled 'Trainer'). A bit worse with SK Pringles can.

Early Clark barrels were made from S&W blanks, so I chose not to bother at the time. Now Shilen I believe, so most likely rimfire spec.

I made my own 5" using a scrap from a Lilja for a liner, Bentz chamber. It shoots a bit better than the S&W, but not as much better than I'd hoped. Pretty sure it will shoot x ring though. I like the balance a lot better.

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Post by r.tornello Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:26 pm

I took my P Center 41 out this AM to shoot, bad shooting fingers/hand and all. Docter RD 3.5 and Rink BE Grip.

75 feet Bullseye one hand hold, timed fire pace=mostly Xs and a few 10.

150 feet, on a bag: tight group in the X with some lower right in the 10. slight flare on the red dot. I'll have to see about that.

I have no complaints. Any issues with this gun are in the shooters corner, single stage trigger or not.

I would suggest when zeroing in use Lapua  Midas+ CENTER-X or 10X (yeah I know, not cheap ammo). Then go back to whatever it is you like. Take out as many variable as possible. 

In the past, I was never a fan of the M41. I took a chance a few months ago and purchased a new one. But this piece, this one is very different than the two I had back in the early 1980's. It could have been me too. Old age sometimes allows a bit of humility.

I bitch about the trigger not being adjustable (and probably one of the reasons it's not one of the top line bullseye guns) and single stage. It fits me which is a surprise since nothing I ever buy fits me.  And, I'll live with the trigger until I won't.
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Post by Headtap Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:42 am

Never had a chance to shoot a Pardini or Hammerli. I was taught, by my father, on a 1967 S&W 41. So, I just upgraded from a Ruger MKII to a new S&W 41. I put a Clark custom barrel on it and a Nikon RDS on it. Bench rested and using CCI standard velocity, I get groupings at 75 feet that can be covered by a dime. With the original 7 inch barrel and an Ultradot, I get pretty much the same groupings, I just like the balance of the Clark custom barrel better.
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Post by gregbenner Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:01 pm

I’ve got a couple 41s, I find the triggers as good as any single stage, including my 208. Not as nice as any of my 2 stage Euro triggers though. This is based only on the guns I own and have shot though, no real idea of the potential variations among different guns.

For the 41s,  I’ve got a 5” sport barrel, factory 5 1/2 and 7” versions, and a Clark 5 1/2”. My favorite is the Clark. 

Ive noticed more difference in accuracy due to ammo than between different barrels.

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Post by CrankyThunder Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:26 pm

to the op, with a red dot, get the shorter barrel.  

the longer barrel with the greater bullet time in the barrel, will magnify your screwups a little worse.  YOu have a less then perfect trigger pull, a 8 on the 5 1/2 inch barrel will be thrown to the 7 with the 7 incher.

Regards, 
Crankster
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Post by Kermit Workman Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:38 pm

Not a S&W 41 but I have done similar testing on High Standard barrels. The best group I got with CCI Std. Vel. in a 7 1/4" fluted barrel was 1" at 50 yards. The best I got with the 5.5" bull or a Victor barrel was 1 1/8" at 50. These were ransom rested. I would expect the same results out of a S&W barrel. As far as accuracy you are splitting frog hairs. The barrel that balances best in your hand and that you can recover best in sustained fire will give you your higher scores. Most shooters like a barrel around 5".
Several types of std. velocity ammo yielded under 2" at 50 yards with 5 different HS barrels. I did not shoot any high dollar ammo. Just the stuff I would shoot in matches.

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Post by Caster3845 Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:42 pm

I have to have finger surgery. I have and no pun intended "trigger finger". My index and middle finger lock up. It's rather painful. I had shots but I've received the max so now it's the knife. 


RT
   I also had to go under the knife for "trigger finger" in 2008 and 2011. You are right, that condition is very painful. I was lucky and had a very good surgeon and both my right ring and middle fingers came out great. I believe I was back to shooting within 5 or 6 weeks. You will not regret getting the surgery done. The procedure involves an incision of 3/8 to 1/2 inch. Ease your mind.......
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Post by Caster3845 Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:47 pm

I just noticed the date, RT, maybe you have already had the surgery done.
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