Does this work disqualify my revolver for DR?

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Does this work disqualify my revolver for DR? Empty Does this work disqualify my revolver for DR?

Post by Bruce in WV on 12/24/2018, 9:52 pm

I had a highly skilled gunsmith rebuild an abused 5 screw K38 for local club matches. He removed the factory trigger stop because it was causing function issues, and refinished it with cerracote to cover serious finish issues. The way I read the rules, I think this work disqualifies it for DR. My declining eyesight no longer lets me use iron sights, and I will probably be selling this gun next year. Can I list this as a legal DR gun?

Completely rebuilt 1948 5 screw K-38 Masterpiece, TH/TT, adj target sights, trued yoke/ejector rod, extractor timed to new hand, rebarreled with 6” NOS factory barrel, NOS extractor, fitted hand, fitted cylinder stop, cylinder exit holes honed and uniformed at .358, superb SA/DA trigger, currently wearing Bill Davis match grips. All major work done by AMU, trade school, and S&W factory-trained master gunsmiths.


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Does this work disqualify my revolver for DR? LLQLpOm
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Does this work disqualify my revolver for DR? 3voljFr


Last edited by Bruce in WV on 12/25/2018, 6:12 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by willnewton on 12/25/2018, 5:29 am

I don’t think that correcting problem areas or replacing a barrel with the same factory barrel would be an issue.  This is maintenance, not modification.  Correcting mismatched cylinder throats is just a detail that should have be done properly at the factory.  Your grips are legal.  You are allowed to work on the sear.

I guess if a match director wanted to be a jerk about the Cerakote being an “external modification”, maybe they could.  It seems unlikely though, as it is not enhancing the performance of the pistol.

I don’t think this pistol violates the spirit of the DR rules.  How hard are the rules going to be enforced anyway?  They don’t want you bringing a PPC-style revolver with fat barrels obviously,  but if the MD looked too hard for rulebreakers, then nearly every pistol on the line would be disqualified for having a 2.5lb “factory trigger” which, as far as I know, does not exist.   Smile
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Post by cdrt on 12/25/2018, 7:16 am

There is no more mention of a 2.5 lb "factory trigger" in the rules so that is not a problem any more.  It specifically states that the trigger can be worked on to achieve the correct trigger pull.

Your are in a "Catch-22" situation, however, because of the removal of the trigger stop.

"Except for stocks and the honing of the sear or sear notch to make a more crisp trigger, and maintain a 2 1/2 lb. minimum trigger pull, no external or internal modification may be made to the revolver as manufactured and sold by the factory of origin. No parts may be removed from the revolver, either externally or internally, nor may any part be added, with the exception of milling the cylinder to accommodate moon clips."


And then a little lower in the rule:

"The following are not allowed. Trigger shoes, compensators of type or design; any external trigger stop device..."

So, it was not legal with the trigger stop and it was illegal to remove it.  Ergo, not a legal DR revolver.

Now, is anyone going to call you on it; probably not, if they don't know the history of the revolver, but I would hesitate to sell it as a legal DR, without informing the buyer, if that is what they are looking for.  Just my two cents.
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Post by Bruce in WV on 12/25/2018, 7:44 am

I still have the trigger stop and screw; it can easily be put back in place.


Last edited by Bruce in WV on 12/25/2018, 7:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by cdrt on 12/25/2018, 7:47 am

Bruce in WV wrote:I still have the trigger stop and screw; it an easily be put back in place.

You could do that, but it would definitely make it not legal for DR, since trigger stops are not allowed.

Like I said, Catch-22.
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Post by Bruce in WV on 12/25/2018, 7:51 am

Early K38’s were designed with a anti-backlash trigger and adjustable trigger stop. (Page 144, Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson, 3rd Ed)
I don’t know what year the engineering change discontinued them. If the adjustable trigger stop set screw came loose in pre-thread locker days it could limit trigger rear travel to the point that it would not release the hammer and keep the gun from firing. This was a serious problem for the users who carried the gun for duty or self defense and were usually removed by the owner.

This may DQ these guns from competition. The factory gun had a trigger stop, but trigger stops are not allowed. Catch—22 as the poster noted above.


Last edited by Bruce in WV on 12/25/2018, 8:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Sc0 on 12/25/2018, 7:57 am

If the K38 used the frame mounted trigger stop that the later 14 series used then it would have been legal, 

3.1.4 
(f) The following are not allowed. Trigger shoes, compensa-
tors of type or design; any external trigger stop device; any inter-
nal trigger stop not originally installed by the factory as original 
equipment in stock revolvers of the same make and model;

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Post by willnewton on 12/25/2018, 8:02 am

Does this work disqualify my revolver for DR? B7443310

This is a screenshot of the rule book.

Any trigger stop NOT INSTALLED BY THE FACTORY.  That means the factory-installed stop is legal when installed.


Last edited by willnewton on 12/25/2018, 8:06 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : This post looks repetitive of the previous one. ScO posted while I was composing my post :)
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Post by cdrt on 12/25/2018, 8:13 am

You are misquoting the rule.  Any external trigger stop is not allowed, which is what he has on that revolver.  You are confusing external and internal trigger stops in (f).  It is talking about internal factory trigger stops, as legal.
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Post by Bruce in WV on 12/25/2018, 8:23 am

Sorry for the confusion. I was adding information to my post when the latter comments were posted. 
This is a factory designed and installed internal trigger stop.
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Post by willnewton on 12/25/2018, 8:24 am

Ok, how about this one.  He just needs to change the trigger to a S&W non-drilled trigger and he will be legal.

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Post by willnewton on 12/25/2018, 8:27 am

Dang, posting at the same time again, but it looks like Bruce may be all good with his internal stop.

I await cdrt, he is our resident Pistol Rules High Master.  Smile
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Post by Bruce in WV on 12/25/2018, 8:37 am

You can see a small slot in the frame behind the trigger in the pictures if you look very closely. This is where the trigger stop protruded and physically blocked rear travel. I’m searching for an older schematic I have on my desktop, and will put it up if I can find it.
That is a.500 S&W target trigger and is not drilled for a stop screw, so is probably OK.
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Post by cdrt on 12/25/2018, 8:41 am

willnewton wrote:Dang, posting at the same time again, but it looks like Bruce may be all good with his internal stop.

I await cdrt, he is our resident Pistol Rules High Master.  Smile
Yeah, I was in the shower and realized he never said whether it was internal or external.  Much ado about nothing.  Just reinstall it and we're all good.  Merry Christmas.
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Post by Bruce in WV on 12/25/2018, 8:46 am

Thank you all. I will take the advice and reinstall the stop.
Merry Christmas!
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Post by james r chapman on 12/25/2018, 10:35 am

The factory removed many of those after LEO’s complained they loosened and prevented full trigger functioning.

It’s much ado about nothing.
Let’s talk “Taylor throating” instead!
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Post by Jack H on 12/25/2018, 1:19 pm

I found a trigger stop pin inside a 14 one time.  I believe the pin was common in N frame, but not K frame.  (The pin is found inside the rebound slide)
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Post by Bruce in WV on 12/26/2018, 10:02 am

The trigger stop and screw are circled in this Kuhnhausen schematic. They are part #s 5155 and 5114.

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Post by lablover on 12/26/2018, 1:26 pm

What does TH/TT mean
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Post by Dr.Don on 12/26/2018, 1:29 pm

Target hammer / target trigger.
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Post by james r chapman on 12/26/2018, 4:36 pm

they often also worked loose and fell out... (wink-wink)
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Post by lablover on 12/26/2018, 4:44 pm

james r chapman wrote:they often also worked loose and fell out... (wink-wink)
The hammer and trigger?
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Post by james r chapman on 12/26/2018, 4:48 pm

Does this work disqualify my revolver for DR? Img_0211

my 14-2
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