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Wobbel area reduction

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dronning
lablover
Allgoodhits
Olde Pilot
Aufidius
chopper
mikemyers
Ed Hall
mhayford45
David R
CR10X
Jack H
Wobbley
10sandxs
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Post by 10sandxs 12/28/2018, 4:46 am

I'm looking for assistance in reducing my wobble area...

Anything goes, diet, exercise , mental training, what ever helps...

Thanks in advance.

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Post by Wobbley 12/28/2018, 6:12 am

Dry fire...a lot...
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Post by Jack H 12/28/2018, 7:30 am

Push-ups, rowing machine, Military press, tennis.
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Post by CR10X 12/28/2018, 12:55 pm

OK, over the past 6 years I've been working my way through this issue, again.  That's because of some massive shoulder surgery, then a complete rethinking of my lifestyle, retirement and losing over 100 pounds to get in better overall shape.

First, get the vision checked and a doctors review and recommendation for your diet and exercise routine. (And keep a watch on your medications if you really pursue this.  (I ran into problems when I got to the point of not needed blood pressure and cholesterol meds, and was still taking them as I improved in general overall health.)   

Diet, exercise and building core strength is part of the equation.  That will definitely help with overall stamina, even vision and concentration since you will be in better condition to stand and shoot throughout the match (and for training sessions). Have your trainer give you lots of core building exercises. and don't neglect the lower back and legs.  They have to support you for a long time when shooting.

However you should be careful with arm, shoulder, hand / wrist exercises as building muscle, which are needed, but can be in conflict with the goal of reducing the wobble area.  Building muscle strength requires movement and / or tension and repetition.  Which are counter to the goal of minimizing movement.  Be sure exercises for these areas are minimal or low weights and lots of repetitions

So in addition to exercise, diet and overall improvement in the core, you really need to also incorporate holding and in particular dryfire training as well.  And I mean consistently, every day for about about 20 minutes or so.  

And don't be surprised if, in the beginning of your new exercise and lifestyle, the wobble area begins to be a bit larger.  It's just a signal that the muscles and body are changing and the nerves and control just needs time to adjust.  

Dryfire consistently, every day or twice a day but only for 15 or 20 minutes each session.  

Do not exceed your attention span for complete concentration on performing each training dryfire shot within your best wobble area.  When you start operating not seeing exactly what you need to see when the hammer falls, or operate the trigger too fast or hold too long, stop and review your process.  If you get tired or to the point you're not doing your best, then stop.   

Hope this helps, good luck!

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Post by David R 12/28/2018, 2:48 pm

I ride a bicycle in the summer and go to the gym in the winter.   At the gym, I do cardio and weights for my upper body, back, arms and shoulders.   I have been going for 2 months and see a difference in my scores.  This happens every year.  I don't get carried away, 1/2 hour or so 5 or 6 days  week. 

Last week I shot my best center fire score ever with a revolver.  282 at 50 feet an informal 4 gun match.

So the better the shape you are in, the better you will shoot Smile
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Post by mhayford45 12/29/2018, 1:05 am

When shooting accept your wobble and focus on trigger control and sight alignment. It amazes me how well I shoot with a larger than expected wobble. I see you are a Master so you probably already know this.

Diet and exercise are important; however I shoot with many people more fit than I am and still compete very well. 

So, what has changed if anything with you and when? Is this a sudden development or has your wobble been deteriorating over time?

Have another master watch you shoot and evaluate you to see if there is something you are not catching.

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Post by 10sandxs 12/29/2018, 1:34 am

Thanks for the responses everyone. wobble area has certainly gotten worse over the years. I took some.time off and am now getting serious about moving up a class.  Just trying to get in the best position to improve.

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Post by mhayford45 12/29/2018, 4:28 am

Might I recommend a Air Pistol....

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Post by Ed Hall 12/29/2018, 4:43 am

As to work on wobble reduction, I like to use line drills.  For dry fire, dry fire a shot against a vertical line and then hold on the line for a few seconds.  After several repetitions, move to a horizontal line.  For live fire, use the back of a full target and run a strip of black tape down the center.  Do the same drill as you did for dry fire.  Then, do the same with a horizontal strip.

However, this is something I consider important:  It is better to let the wobble float over the area of aim while being aggressive on the trigger, than to continually adjust the aiming to the center of the black while hesitantly operating the trigger.  Start the trigger and then allow the aim to float until the guns fires.  Repeat for sustained fire.

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Post by 10sandxs 12/29/2018, 6:22 am

mhayford45 wrote:Might I recommend a Air Pistol....
I've got a master card for AP as well...

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Post by mikemyers 12/29/2018, 6:58 am

The advice in this forum, plus the Sanderson videos on holding drills, then dry firing, and religiously dry firing every day, maybe multiple times a day, helped my red dot remain closer to where it should be, and Dave Salyer's advice about Area Aiming taught me to ignore the wobble.

That's for me.  I'm in no way in a position to give you advice, as you are obviously way beyond what I can do.  But I can definitely say that following the above helped stabilize my red dot  --  but it took many months.
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Post by chopper 12/30/2018, 10:58 pm

I agree with all the advice said here, but what kind of diet are you guys referring to? Would it be more proteins than carbs or higher fats or more carbs? More liquids? Lighter smaller meals, but more of them?
Stan

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Post by Aufidius 12/31/2018, 12:33 am

Wobbley wrote:Dry fire...a lot...

-1
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Post by Aufidius 12/31/2018, 12:34 am

Ed Hall wrote:As to work on wobble reduction, I like to use line drills.  For dry fire, dry fire a shot against a vertical line and then hold on the line for a few seconds.  After several repetitions, move to a horizontal line.  For live fire, use the back of a full target and run a strip of black tape down the center.  Do the same drill as you did for dry fire.  Then, do the same with a horizontal strip.

However, this is something I consider important:  It is better to let the wobble float over the area of aim while being aggressive on the trigger, than to continually adjust the aiming to the center of the black while hesitantly operating the trigger.  Start the trigger and then allow the aim to float until the guns fires.  Repeat for sustained fire.

+1
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Post by Olde Pilot 12/31/2018, 1:35 am

Wobbel? Wobble? Who cares if it gets smaller!

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Post by Allgoodhits 12/31/2018, 4:47 pm

Ed Hall wrote:As to work on wobble reduction, I like to use line drills.  For dry fire, dry fire a shot against a vertical line and then hold on the line for a few seconds.  After several repetitions, move to a horizontal line.  For live fire, use the back of a full target and run a strip of black tape down the center.  Do the same drill as you did for dry fire.  Then, do the same with a horizontal strip.

However, this is something I consider important:  It is better to let the wobble float over the area of aim while being aggressive on the trigger, than to continually adjust the aiming to the center of the black while hesitantly operating the trigger.  Start the trigger and then allow the aim to float until the guns fires.  Repeat for sustained fire.


Excellent!

The independent vertical and horizontal line image is also an excellent means of identifying ultimate zero. It can be tested later with both horizontal and vertical lines, i.e. crosshairs. Of course what your eyes like to see with the actual target is the most crucial test.
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Post by 10sandxs 12/31/2018, 4:55 pm

MikeMeyers and EdHall,

thanks for the info, I hadn't heard about the Sanders holding drills. Goes to show you there's always something you miss if you don't keep looking.  I'd heard about the line drills, but had forgotten them.

Training plan is now set, we'll see how it goes in a month or so.

thanks much!

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Post by lablover 12/31/2018, 8:42 pm

Where does one find these Sanderson videos?  Is there more than one?  Thanks fellas
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Post by 10sandxs 12/31/2018, 10:50 pm

lablover wrote:Where does one find these Sanderson videos?  Is there more than one?  Thanks fellas
I googled "Sanderson Holding drills". I only found one, but it seemed to cover it.

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Post by dronning 1/1/2019, 12:16 am

Here is a PDF of Keith Sanderson Dry Fire Training, it includes his holding drills.
- Dave
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Post by john bickar 1/1/2019, 12:29 am

I am finding recently that strength training - dynamic, low weight, high rep, slow controlled motions, daily - does wonders for my hold.

And I am finding that having a good hold gives me several advantages:

1. I am confident in starting my trigger squeeze a little earlier, because I am confident that my minimum arc of movement will settle into where it should be
2. I am able to devote my conscious mind more completely to squeezing the trigger, because I can trust that the dot is going to stay within my acceptable minimum arc of movement
3. I can keep my hold longer if my mind drifts, and get myself back on track without having to put the gun down
4. I can shoot doubles and triples in slow fire, and they are well-executed shots
5. I'm significantly stronger and steadier at the end of a long match, e.g., a one-day 2700
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Post by lablover 1/1/2019, 8:03 pm

dronning wrote:Here is a PDF of Keith Sanderson Dry Fire Training, it includes his holding drills.
- Dave
Thanks a million
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Post by noproblem 1/1/2019, 9:14 pm

john bickar wrote:I am finding recently that strength training - dynamic, low weight, high rep, slow controlled motions, daily - does wonders for my hold.


please could you give more details on strength training process . Since due work for the next 3 months my live shooting will be limited. During this downtime i want to work on my dryfire and strength training.

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Post by john bickar 1/1/2019, 10:28 pm

Typically:
1. 15 reps with 10-lb dumbbells side raises (shoulder)
2. 15 reps with 10-lb dumbbells front raises (shoulder)
3. 15 reps with 10-lb dumbbells curls
4. 15 reps with 10-lb dumbbells external rotation
5. 15 reps with 10-lb dumbbells bent row
6. 20 reps each side "clock plank"

All slow and controlled. Takes me maybe 10 minutes total. I also typically bicycle about 7 miles/30 minutes each weekday (my commute).
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Post by noproblem 1/2/2019, 3:54 am

john bickar wrote:Typically:
1. 15 reps with 10-lb dumbbells side raises (shoulder)
2. 15 reps with 10-lb dumbbells front raises (shoulder)
3. 15 reps with 10-lb dumbbells curls
4. 15 reps with 10-lb dumbbells external rotation
5. 15 reps with 10-lb dumbbells bent row
6. 20 reps each side "clock plank"

All slow and controlled. Takes me maybe 10 minutes total. I also typically bicycle about 7 miles/30 minutes each weekday (my commute).
you are the man,

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