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Psychology of the mind

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Psychology of the mind Empty Psychology of the mind

Post by Headtap 1/13/2019, 6:19 pm

I have been target shooting since I was 5 years old, but only started Bullseye style shooting 3 years ago and sincerily shooting Bullseye with others for about a year. Fulfilled a dream and went to Camp Perry in July of 2018. But I have noticed one thing...I shoot much better at practice than I do in competition. My club has a computerized range and I can program a NRA 50 foot target to emulate a competition timing. I can usually score, at practice, from  an 87 to a 92 at 50 feet and at 75 feet. So why do I do so poorly at competition? Experiencing from a 52 to a 67 with the same gun and ammo and distances. Unfortunately, you can’t spend an hour before competition to warm up or practice, so what do the rest of you competitors do to warm up and relax before a meet? 
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Post by dronning 1/13/2019, 9:36 pm

If you only train for the mechanics of shooting you are only 5% of the way there.  This sport is 95% mental.
I suggest you read "with Winning in Mind" by Lanny Bassham (book on tape too).  He developed his method after getting the shakes at his first Olympics (he still got the Silver) but by following his method he took the Gold at the next Olympics.

Developing a shot process and training to that process will help eliminate match day jitters.
- Dave
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Post by CR10X 1/14/2019, 5:23 am

Do some training like you are shooting a match. (Set up, 3 minute prep, dryfire and shoot for score.  Fire 11 shots and score the points down to get your scores, take 9 minutes instead of 10. do refire strings and score the low 10, shoot a training match where you only have 10 shots to shoot for the day and you have only 10 minutes to use them, etc. etc.  Anything to induce stress, different conditions, feelings of anxiety, anything that tries to keep you from relaxing.  Train to relax and just shoot. )

Then just shoot at a match because you've trained on how to shoot at a match. 

Remember training time is training time (that's where you work on one thing, ingrain the shot process, review, evaluate, etc.).  

Match shooting is just shooting (where you just follow the process from your training and just call each shot, you can review and evaluate later). 

You can't shoot a match when training and you can't train at a match.

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Post by joy2shoot 1/14/2019, 8:46 am

CR10X wrote:...Anything to induce stress, different conditions, feelings of anxiety, anything that tries to keep you from relaxing.  Train to relax and just shoot. )
I think that is the main purpose of the US Marine Corps Pistol Team Workbook.  In my opinion the workbook does not teach or explain the fundamentals.  Rather it puts the shooter through a series of exercises of ever increasing difficulty, which naturally increases stress.  The 'rule' of the workbook is you cannot proceed to the next exercise until you have successfully completed the one you are on.  You do the exercises for the .22, then do them again for CF and then again for .45.  The exercises are the same for each caliber, but like the exercises you cannot proceed to the next caliber until you successfully complete all exercises using the current caliber. I asked Brian if you shoot .45 for CF can you skip the exercises for the .45 since they are the same.  His answer was 'No'.  Shoot the .45 for the CF exercises and then shoot the .45 for the .45 exercises, i.e. no skipping, no jumping ahead, no 'I will come back to this exercise after I complete the ones after it'.  You are trying to put yourself under stress so you practice dealing with stress.

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Post by mspingeld 1/14/2019, 9:42 am

@joy2shoot. I never did the workbook but I've been stuck at expert for longer than I care to admit. Most difficulty is with 45 rapid.

I never thought of the workbook in the way you describe.

Thanks for that. I think I'll try it.

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Post by joy2shoot 1/14/2019, 9:56 am

mspingeld wrote:...  I've been stuck at expert for longer than I care to admit ...
Know what you mean.  My first classification was Expert and I am still there.  I attended a Shue/Bethard clinic where I was told in no uncertain terms that I have no trigger control.  So I have swallowed my pride and have totally revamped my training covering all the fundamentals.  Been working on that throughout the winter.  Probably won't finish before the season starts, but that's OK.

If you internet search 'US Marine Corps Pistol Team Workbook' you will find a downloadable pdf of the workbook.

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Post by DA/SA 1/14/2019, 10:00 am

Just look above, as the download is one of the "Stickies" on this forum.
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Post by mspingeld 1/14/2019, 10:01 am


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Post by mhayford45 1/14/2019, 1:11 pm

I would say not to focus on your target scores until the end of the match. Focus on your shot process and just shoot each shot for the best group you can for the match. At the end of the match your good groups will translate into a good score. 

If during the match you start to think about your scores... have a key word or phrase to get you back on track for shooting good groups. Kind on a Mantra, Zen thing....

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Post by mhayford45 1/14/2019, 1:15 pm

Part 2... so to answer you questions  directly "so what do the rest of you competitors do to warm up and relax before a meet? "


Breathe, Trust shot process, Run Shot Process, Repeat.  

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Post by dronning 1/14/2019, 1:32 pm

I do some quick stretching, legs, trunk, neck, shoulder, arm, wrist and even fingers to loosen up a little.  I makes me feel relaxed as it relieves the "mechanical/muscle tension" which can induce mental stress.  If I don't do this my stance will shift a lot due to everything loosing up as I shoot.  Sucks to get old.
- Dave
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Post by mspingeld 1/14/2019, 3:31 pm

Is there a misprint in the USMC book? Pages 32, 72 and 112 are all titled "Rapid Fire Group Shooting" but all state "Timed Fire Cadence" in the description and "5 rounds in 20 seconds" in the time limit.

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Post by lablover 1/14/2019, 7:25 pm

I’ve been reading the workbook but draw a blank at the firing at the blank sheet Target. If using a dot, where does one aim?  If I’m shooting at a blank sheet the sheet is so big say 8x10 if I don’t have an aiming point I’ll never get the goal of 5.5 inches.  And, after the first shot I’ll want to aim at the hole I just made.  Can someone clarify this blank sheet thing...please. 

I also need to find a way to print this manual in half sheets to make a nice workbook to take with me to the range
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Post by CR10X 1/14/2019, 7:53 pm

First, quit looking for an "aiming point".  Learn to accept an "area of aim".   Shoot at a blank 21 X 24 target.  Hold in the general middle of the big white area and operate the trigger smoothly.   That's all you need to do.   

Once again, some specific point of the target has very little to do with where the shot lands.  EVERYTHING happens at the gun and introducing angular displacement (bad grip, jerking the trigger, snatching, hesitation, etc.) introduces tremendously more displacement of the shot on the target than wobble ever will.  

Just keep the sights aligned or watch the wobble of the dot get smaller as the trigger is operated is the process for firing on a blank target.  Most people will eventually shoot a group way less than 5.5 inches (especially when they quit looking at the holes and focus on the front sight). 

The general purpose of blank target is to learn to see the wobble (of the aligned front and rear sight or dot) and get used to it and learn to just operate the trigger without inducing more wobble (or even more angular displacement of the gun) trying to put the aligned sights or dot on some specific POINT.  

People tend to snatch, jerk, time or hesitate when operating the trigger when trying to aim at a specific point.  Any by the time you see some specific sight picture on a particular POINT, it will be even further away when the gun actually fires.


Last edited by CR10X on 1/14/2019, 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by mspingeld 1/14/2019, 7:57 pm

Depending on the version of Acrobat you use to open the manual, when you click print, there may be a booklet option. Try it on a smaller file to see if it accomplishes what you want so you don't waste a bunch of paper.

Here's more info. The instructions are different if you have a printer that can print duplex (on both sides of a sheet).

https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/kb/print-booklets-acrobat-reader.html

Hope this helps.

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Post by lablover 1/14/2019, 8:02 pm

CR10X wrote:First, quit looking for an "aiming point".  Learn to accept an "area of aim".   Shoot at a blank 21 X 24 target.  Hold in the general middle of the big white area and operate the trigger smoothly.   That's all you need to do.   

Once again, some specific point of the target has very little to do with where the shot lands.  EVERYTHING happens at the gun and introducing angular displacement (bad grip, jerking the trigger, snatching, hesitation, etc.) introduces tremendously more displacement of the shot on the target than wobble ever will.  

Just keep the sights aligned or watch the wobble of the dot get smaller as the trigger is operated is the process for firing on a blank target. 

The general purpose of blank target is to learn to see the wobble (of the aligned front and rear sight or dot) and get used to it and learn to just operate the trigger without inducing more wobble (or even more angular displacement of the gun) trying to put them on some specific POINT.  

People tend to snatch, jerk, time or hesitate when operating the trigger when trying to aim at a specific point.  Any by the time you see some specific sight picture on a particular POINT, it will be even further away when the gun actually fires.
I think I get it now
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Post by lablover 1/14/2019, 8:03 pm

mspingeld wrote:Depending on the version of Acrobat you use to open the manual, when you click print, there may be a booklet option. Try it on a smaller file to see if it accomplishes what you want so you don't waste a bunch of paper.

Here's more info. The instructions are different if you have a printer that can print duplex (on both sides of a sheet).

https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/kb/print-booklets-acrobat-reader.html

Hope this helps.
Perfect!  Thank you
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Post by Headtap 1/14/2019, 10:05 pm

Damn it! Everything said is what my dad already said. I hate it when he’s right. Now he gets to gloat, rightfully so. Don’t tell him.
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Post by Headtap 1/14/2019, 10:06 pm

Oh, thanks guys. Thank you for your responces. Glad to be here.
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